, Plenary
Welsh Conservatives Debate: Public Services Ombudsman for Wales
Will you take an intervention?
, Plenary
Business Statement and Announcement
Deputy Presiding Officer, last week, during questions to the Trefnydd, I used some inaccurate statistics in relation to the number of prevention of future deaths reports published in respect of the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. I apologise for that…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
I welcome that, Minister. And just finally if I can pick up and follow on on that, because I do support statutory requirements for certain information to be published both by parties and, indeed, the Electoral Commission or the returning officers on the…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
And just one final question, if I may, Chair, and that is in relation to the other aspects of diversity that you've touched on a few times during the evidence session. Obviously, we want this Senedd to be as representative as possible of the diversity in the…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
I think it would be helpful just to have an understanding, especially given the clear recommendation to try and avoid anything that would end up in the Supreme Court. I have one final question. You've referred to the costs that you think are associated with…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
And can I ask you this question, Minister: what were the costs to the Welsh Government of the last case that was taken to the Supreme Court in respect of a competency issue in relation to a Senedd Bill? Do you know?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
That's absolutely fine. And just turning to the costs, obviously, I've seen the very small administrative costs that have been listed in the explanatory memorandum, with the regulatory impact assessment. Do you really think that's a realistic expectation of…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
But was there external legal advice commissioned, though—yes or no?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
So, was there any specific external legal advice sought in respect of the provisions in this Bill specifically—or commissioned?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Sorry, Minister, that's not the question I asked. I asked what have the costs been that have been incurred by the Welsh Government to date, in the development of the Bill, including the costs of any external legal advice.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Can I just turn to the matter of costs, if that's okay? So, first of all, one of the questions that I raised with you yesterday in the Chamber, Minister, was around what the costs have been to develop this Bill to date by the Welsh Government. Are you able to…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
I appreciate that, but in terms of gender fluidity, so, someone who regards themselves a woman at the time of declaration—
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
So, you want this to go to court to be tested—is that right?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
I'm not asking whether you have powers; I'm asking whether it's your policy intention.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Well, what's the Government's intention? Perhaps you can tell us the Government's intention at least. Is it the intention that a trans woman will be a woman for the purposes of this Bill and, therefore, qualify in the same way—
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
I appreciate that, but, Minister, people are asking: will a trans woman qualify as a woman for the purposes of elections in the future in Wales?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Yes, so, I just want to go back to this issue of nominations and self-declarations, because it is something that people have flagged up as being peculiar. So, someone who is trans can identify themselves as either a man or a woman, or a woman or not a woman…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Yes.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
But, Minister—
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Because there is no definition of what a woman is and what a woman isn't on the face of the Bill, doesn't that risk undermining the true purpose of the Bill?
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
To declare whether they're a man or a woman.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Is there any other gender quota system in the world where people are allowed to determine for themselves at the point of declaration whether they consider themselves to be a woman or not and are asked in this way, 'Are you a woman or not a woman?' rather…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Can I just get this right: if someone self-identifies as a woman, they are entitled to declare themselves to be a woman for the purposes of an election? Is that right? And what happens with gender-fluid individuals who regard themselves as gender fluid, which…
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
Well, that's for me to determine, isn't it, as far as the Bill is concerned.
, Reform Bill Committee
Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill: Evidence session with the Minister for Social Justice and Chief Whip
With respect, though, Minister, I'm asking you specifically what would prevent me from making a declaration that I was a woman for the purposes of the election, because there are people who describe themselves as gender fluid, aren't there, that might declare…
