, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Okay. Thank you for that. Let me turn to another observation. You were complimentary about the CLA—they did put very detailed submissions in on this. CLA Cymru told us that preservation notices have never been implemented, and they're unlikely to be…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Okay. Is there anything that you want to add in terms of that aspect—that previously, at least in principle, it had some discretion around it, but now, within this Bill, it takes away that discretion?
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Thank you, Alun. Thank you very much. Let me turn for a moment to recovery of costs and compliance with enforcement notices under section 132(5). We've had some exchange of correspondence on this and some answers from you, Counsel General. One of the things…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Thank you, James. Alun, to you.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
That's why we're pushing so hard on this. It's important to get this on record. Thank you very much indeed. James, back to you.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
So, you're in line with their suggestion that the TAN advice should be clarified to clarify that conservation remains Welsh Government policy, and where the term 'preservation' is used in the legislation, it should be interpreted as not conflicted with that…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Could you just give us a flavour of how your discussions with the CLA and Historic Houses Wales have gone on this? Are they reassured by what you are telling us, that this is a matter of interpretation, it does not stop, there is not a clear, defined line…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
And I wonder, Mr George, if you could draw as well on the comments made by the House of Lords in the South Lakeland case that preservation does allow change. So, over to you for the legally precise interpretation of this.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Could I switch to the other end of the table—
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
That's helpful, but just to draw out from you, you are being quite clear in saying that the term 'preservation' does not necessarily mean preserved in aspic. You see an interplay between the terms 'preservation' and 'conservation' in practice.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
No, it's very important.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Okay. So, what is your understanding, in light of this Bill in front of us, of the difference between 'preservation' and 'conservation'? If there is a significant difference between the two terms, why does Welsh Government guidance and policy refer to…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Thank you, Alun. Let's turn to the issue of conservation as opposed to preservation, and you've probably seen, I suspect, some of the CLA evidence to us and the concerns that they've raised, and they do describe their objections to this as quite a fundamental…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Okay, thank you. Alun, over to you.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Okay, thank you. Mr Hughes, give us some reassurance.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Okay. That's helpful. Thank you very much. In that letter to you in September, we also suggested that the regulation-making power in section 2(3) was a new power that allowed the Welsh Ministers to apply historic environment law to buildings that could not…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Good. Thank you very much. Thanks, James. Before we go to Alun, let me just turn to a couple of questions. Back in our letter to you in September, we asked for further explanation as to the effect of the current provision in the Ancient Monuments and…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Okay, thank you very much. James.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
That's great. It's reassuring that you don't see any big-red-light issues there from your take, but you'll have that in writing before we can proceed, yes.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
Thank you very much, Counsel General. Right, let's crack on. I'll lead off, and then we'll go into some detailed questions from James. An hour and a half, and we've probably got about 30 areas that we want to cover, so we'll keep it really snappy. First off…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Historic Environment (Wales) Bill: Ministerial evidence session
We have a busy session ahead of us, so we're going to move straight to the first substantive item on the agenda today, which is to look at the Historic Environment (Wales) Bill. We're glad to see once again the Counsel General and Minister for the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest
Welcome to this afternoon's meeting of our committee. We've got a very packed agenda this afternoon. Just some of the normal housekeeping announcements: we are conducting proceedings in person today, although we also have somebody on our visuals as well…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest
Welcome, everyone. Welcome to you all this afternoon.
, Plenary
Debate on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee Report—'Annual Report 2021/22'
Diolch, Llywydd, and in my short response here, can I just first of all thank the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution for the serious, thoughtful and considered way in which he's responded to this debate, and it typifies his approach to the…
, Plenary
Debate on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee Report—'Annual Report 2021/22'
It is fair to say that we had not expected, during the first year of the sixth Senedd, to have spent quite so much time reporting on the Welsh Government's legislative consent memoranda for UK Bills. We expressed concern at the extent to which the UK…
