, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
But there will always be—there will always be difference of opinion between a body tasked with putting forward cases on the environment, environmental protection. They will have a different agenda to bring to it than somebody else will and somebody else will.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
Right. I'm not clear on what you mean by 'an appeals process'. Is it an appeals process, Ross, at the point where a Minister goes against the advice that's been put in front of her, so she makes a political decision, perhaps, to say, 'This goes ahead,' or…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
No, you've said it.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
That’s great. Thank you.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
That’s very good and very helpful. Thank you very much for that. Annie, should we keep it open to wide interpretation as it is, or should we—as Ross has suggested—narrow it down a bit and be more precise on what 'significant effect on the environment' means?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
Thank you very much. Final question, and I'm going to go to Ross first of all, because I'm anticipating where the answer might be on this. We've had some suggestions that some of the language in the Bill on some of the significant infrastructure projects, the…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
Let me stay with you for a moment, Annie. Have you got anything material you want to say to us about the thresholds, or are they broadly acceptable within the Bill as it's currently framed? So, the threshold of what should be within the significant…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
Yes, okay. Thanks. Annie, any thoughts on this, the categories?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
Okay, then. I'll come to you now, Annie, as well, but some of the arguments put against that are that things such as battery storage, even hydrogen production, tend to be a localised issue that can be captured within the local planning system, by and large…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
Diolch, Cadeirydd. I'm going to turn to significant infrastructure categories, and, genuinely, if there's nothing you want to respond to in my questions, feel free to just stay silent. But we've had some response to the consultation we've been carrying out…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
Okay. Thanks.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
But if you halted what was currently going on and waited for this to come in, you would have no energy, highways, major infrastructure projects proceeding.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Environmental organisations
That's different from transitioning; you just said 'halt'.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Energy sector developers
So, again, I guess my ask, Chair, to our witnesses today is, if you have specific proposals around wording that may assist the committee in giving that clarity on all the things we've covered, that would be of real help.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Energy sector developers
So, do you think, Liz, that that requires clarity on the face of the Bill in that terminology or could that clarity be given, along with things like other optional thresholds, within guidance?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Energy sector developers
Thank you very much. If there's anything else you'd want to send us on that, we'd be very grateful—with some more detail on it, Tom. Thank you very much. Could I just ask you for your views on whether the SIPs are clear enough? We picked up in an earlier…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Energy sector developers
That’s fantastic. When you talk about legal and constitutional things, I’m in the right head space. When you talk about AC/DC stuff, it takes me back to my O-level physics exam and diagrams, on which I was lost at that time, and I'm still lost, but thank you…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Energy sector developers
That's great. Thank you. Liz, I wonder whether I could come to you for any views that you have on those. Oh, sorry, Tom; I’ll come to you in a moment as well, but if I could go to Liz first of all, and I don’t know whether you want to bring in any views you…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Energy sector developers
Okay, but that's specifically on pipeline, and the transition from gas to hydrogen, potentially, within those pipelines and so on—not the other aspects of hydrogen, in terms of hydrogen production, hydrolysers, et cetera.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with Energy sector developers
Thank you very much. If you've seen our proceedings before, you will have seen that we are covering some of the same areas. But we would be interested in your views on whether the categories of significant infrastructure projects are right in the Bill, or…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the National Infrastructure Planning Association
Thank you very much.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the National Infrastructure Planning Association
That's really helpful. Thank you very much for that. I'm not picking up any strong views from you that energy storage and hydrogen in particular should be included within the categories, but the opt-in and opt-out provisions provide some flexibility there for…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the National Infrastructure Planning Association
Thank you, Chair. We've been trying to get views on whether some things have been omitted from the categories, and we've had differing views, particularly in terms of things such as energy storage and hydrogen. And, in fact, from some local authorities, we've…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the National Infrastructure Planning Association
Yes. Okay. Sorry, Chair, I don't want to delay on this, but, again, if you or colleagues have any way that you think this could be expressed in law that was appropriate and balanced and protected the rights of citizens as well as put the rockets under…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
Infrastructure (Wales) Bill - Evidence session with the National Infrastructure Planning Association
So—. Sorry. So, if I was—I am—a member of the public, I should have every right to challenge Welsh Government or, in another situation, the UK Government, if those policy statements have not been reviewed in a timely manner and are out of date. I should…
