, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Exactly. Well, that brings us to our time. Thank you so much. The hour has flown by. It's always a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for giving up your morning to be with us and to share your experience and understanding of the different roles that…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
I'm surprised, in Mike's question there, that he didn't use his catchphrase of 'show your workings', because I think that's one of the things that this committee in particular asks.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
I think, in our context, more so it's generally mediating between everybody else and the Treasury, rather than being inter-governmental, because it's within Governments as well that the Treasury holds the purse strings—even dealing with other departments as…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Yes, probably.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
And I suppose giving it some authority.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Okay, thank you.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
And would that body—? I know you're talking of the legislative Houses in Westminster, and then this place and the other devolved Parliaments. Would there be scope, there, to have the voice of some of those mayors and devolved aspects of England as well, just…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
So, they can't say, 'I don't want to turn up'; they're obliged to turn up.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Do you see that body as an arbiter, or as a body of discussion?
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
I think it boils down to having one version of the truth, I suppose, to be able to get to that—. Everybody's agreed on, 'Well, those are the facts', and how you interpret them is different, but it's having one fixed point, so that at least you've got a chance…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Of course we would, yes.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
One of the things that we have heard in this committee is that, on official level, things might be better than on a political level, and that might be a distinction. That is something that we've heard from different witnesses—that official to official…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Well, if we're challenging that there's not enough coming from Westminster out, is there enough going out, into Westminster, I suppose, or from the devolved nations into Westminster as well?
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
On that point, do you think the other way around as well—so, not necessarily the information and the transparency coming from Westminster, that way, but is enough information sent the other way as well, to allow for inter-parliamentary scrutiny of, not…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Sorry, Peter—
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
If I may, and I might be trampling over something you'll ask later, one of the things that this committee has done with the committees in Scotland and in Northern Ireland is set up an inter-parliamentary forum that tries to look at the commonality of the…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Peter.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
We saw in the autumn, when the then Minister for Finance and Local Government, now Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Cabinet Office, put out a statement to say that one of things that she was hoping to do to manage a £900 million black hole in…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
[Inaudible.]—not necessarily Crickhowell community council or town council, but local authorities have got a lot more fiscal flexibility than the Welsh Government have in borrowing powers and that element. Some of that hasn't changed for a decade or more, so…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Okay. There we are. Well, I'll bring Mike Hedges in to take things forward.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
One of the key differences between some of the others and FISC is that FISC does have a secretariat that is able to drive some of that. So, rather than the rules, they have a body that tries to do some of that work. Does that stem out of the Treasury liking…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
But it might be, then, that it's more down to, as you both said earlier, relationships, and that the interpersonal relationships of Ministers and Cabinet Secretaries might have more of a bearing than the actual rules that are laid out.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
No, but hypothesise.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
Okay. You talked earlier about FISC and that that was something that has been happening, and Ministers and Cabinet Secretaries have been liaising on that and working. We've also heard that FISC has its own rules compared with other standing committees. What…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 6
It may be a bit—
