Petitions Committee

I move on to item 3 of today's agenda—updates to previous petitions. Item 3.1, P-05-895, 'Rosa's Legacy: Introduce a scheme to help people access veterinary care for their companion animals', and this was submitted by Linda Joyce Jones, with 95 signatures. Can I ask Members to discuss the petition and any actions they may wish to take? Any comments from Members on this petition? Joel. I'll bring Joel in, and then Buffy later.

Thank you, Chair. It was just a quick thing. I note from the report that there's a possibility to write to the Minister for rural affairs just to see if they're going to take this forward. I think that's probably the logical next step, really.

Buffy.

That's what I was going to say. I was going to agree with Joel. That's the way forward, definitely, yes.

And I see agreement from Luke. Thank you, Members, and, Clerk, we have a way forward there. So, we'll move on. Item 3.2, P-05-1003, 'Demand an EIA now on the dumping of radioactively contaminated mud in Welsh waters', and this was submitted by Cian Ciaran with 10,692 signatures. I note this has come to committee quite a few times now, including a debate in the Senedd. Can I ask Members to discuss further? Luke.

Thank you, Chair. I understand, of course, that this has been subject to debate for quite some time now, a number of years, and has been debated in the Chamber as well. I would, however, ask that the committee write to Natural Resources Wales, asking particularly about why the Marine Management Organisation's application—I think it is, off the top of my head—and the information around that haven't been made public, and ask them to place the documents and correspondence in a public file. I think it's important that we try to get to the bottom of this; there are clearly quite a large number of people who are concerned with it. I understand—and, again, I'm approaching this from quite a layman's perspective—that the testing has been done on sediment, for example, but not on the air particles associated with it. I think it's important that we do cover the bases here and so I hope the rest of the committee would agree with that.

Do Members agree? Right. I remember this petition from the last Senedd, and, Luke, you've put a suggestion forward there to write to NRW, which Members agree with, and I do, too. Perhaps we can write to NRW, but, on the back of that, close this petition, given the fact we've already debated it and I don't think we'll be able to get a second debate on this particular petition. But I do agree that the questions need to be asked, so we can ask those questions for the petitioner and correspond on that. Do Members agree with that as a way forward? Joel.

Thank you, Chair. This just touches upon what I mentioned on a different petition earlier. If we are to write on, I'd be more comfortable closing it once we know what the response is, if that makes sense, and then, if we felt it necessary, to close it at the next meeting. I just feel a bit that it's, for want of a better expression, half the battle to say, 'Oh, we'll write to the Minister', but then we don't necessarily as a committee care what the response is, if that makes sense. That's what it feels like, if that makes sense, not that that's what we intend.

Okay. So, there's a suggestion to keep it open, then. So, Members—I'm looking at Buffy and Luke—do you want to go with that suggestion?

Yes, okay.

Thank you. Moving on to item 3.3, P-05-912, 'Supporting Families with Sudden and Unexpected Death in Children and Young Adults'. This was submitted by Rhian Mannings with 5,682 signatures, and, again, I note I remember this particular sensitive petition from the last Senedd, which I think I'm right in saying, Clerk, we did push forward for a debate, which was rescheduled and postponed because of the pandemic. So, can I ask Members if we could honour that commitment from the last committee? Also, I think there is an opportunity to meet with Rhian as well as a committee, perhaps before that debate. Do Members agree with that? Thank you. I know Rhian's a huge campaigner, so I congratulate her on that as well. Hopefully we can get this debate as promised by the last committee sooner rather than later. Are Members in agreement? Yes. Thank you.

Moving on to item 3.4, P-05-1035, 'Allow birthing partners to be present at scans, the start of labour, birth and after the birth'. This was submitted by Hannah Albrighton with 7,326 signatures. Can I ask Members to discuss this petition and any actions they'd like to take? Buffy.

It's all about safety, isn't it, really—keeping mother and baby and staff safe. It must have been absolutely horrendous last year for new mothers to be giving birth without their birth partners with them. I can only imagine what they must have gone through, especially if they've had a traumatic birth. You need that person, that loved one, there with you, that trusted friend. You need that person with you when you're giving birth, so I can't imagine what the past 18 months have been like. But we also recognise that there are risk factors and they must be taken into consideration at all times. I think that the revised guidance now that Welsh Government have put out makes it a lot easier for birth partners to be present at the birth and at scans. I think each hospital has taken its own course of action now where this is concerned, so I think we should thank the petitioner, recognise that this is a very, very important and emotive subject, and then close the petition, because, as things move on throughout the year, I think things will become a little bit easier.

Thank you for that, Buffy, and I can see Members nodding in agreement with your suggestion there, so we'll take that forward. Thank you for that.

Item 3.5, P-05-1045, 'To make shared-decision making and monthly mental health care-plan reviews a legal requirement', and this was submitted by Tesni Morgan with 1,462 signatures. I would like to invite Members to discuss this important and sensitive petition and any actions that we may wish to take forward on this. Joel.

Thank you, Chair. This is a very important subject matter, and I note from the report that's been done that one of the recommendations could be to write to the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee to request that this is included within a forward work plan. I definitely think that's a must, I think, depending on what the rest of the committee says, but I think that's a very good way to move forward.

I can see Members nodding in agreement, and I nod with agreement to that as well. And as a member of the health committee, I think it's a very important point raised by the petitioner. So, if we can action that please, Clerk, and we'll move on to item 3.6, P-05-1062, 'Abandon the rt-PCR test for covid-19 testing as its unfit for purpose'. This was submitted by Robert O'Shea with 96 signatures, and I'll ask Members to discuss this petition and any actions they'd like to take forward. Luke.

Thank you, Chair. It seems to me that the Welsh Government has provided its rationale for using the PCR tests. So, I'm failing to see, really, where else we can take this now. So, if the rest of the committee's happy, I think we should close the petition and thank the petitioner.

I can see nodding from Buffy, and I think Joel's in agreement too. Yes, that's great. Thank you for that, Luke.

Item 3.7, P-05-1138, 'COVID-19 Weekly testing for staff caring for people with complex medical health needs'. And this was submitted by Leanne Collis with 50 signatures. Again, I'll ask Members to discuss this and, Luke, I can see—.

Thanks, Chair. I think the Minister has provided a response to this petition already, or at least to the subject matter of the petitioner, and has explained that lateral flow tests are now available freely to all individuals who work from home. I would think that that addresses the petitioner's concern, or at least I'd hope it does. And in that case, I think we should thank the petitioner and close the petition.

Thank you, Luke, and I see Members in agreement.

Item 3.8, P-05-1133, 'Adapt the teacher training syllabus to include Transformational Coaching and Emotional Intelligence'. And it was submitted by Tracey Jones with 193 signatures. And again, I'll invite Members to discuss this petition further. Buffy.

We could write back to the Minister for Education and Welsh Language, highlighting the petitioner's concerns, asking the question how the petitioner could contribute to future planning for the teaching profession. We could do that.

Are Members in agreement with Buffy's suggestion? Good suggestion put forward. Thank you. Thank you, Buffy.

Item 3.9, P-05-1135, 'Targeted funding for residential outdoor education centres, now unable to operate for 12 months'. And it was submitted by Sara Jane Jones with 1,181 signatures. And again, I'll ask Members to discuss this petition further. Buffy.

I think everything is operating as normal now, isn't it, with the outdoor education centres? I'm sure they are. Yes, they are. So, we could thank the petitioner and close the petition.

I'm in—. Luke.

Thanks, Chair. I think there are still some gaps in the support for the sector, in particular, but I would agree with Buffy's suggestion of closing the petition and thanking the petitioner, mainly because whilst Welsh Government have provided support and there are gaps present, I think now it falls on us as individual Members of the Senedd again to raise this in the Senedd Chamber and directly with the Minister, rather than this being done through Petitions Committee. And I think that point should be emphasised with the petitioner, that this is something that we as individual Members now will take up in the Chamber.

Yes, I agree with Luke.

I can see agreement there, and I fully agree with both comments made. And perhaps we can make that point to the petitioner, and maybe include the details of the local and regional Members too. Thank you.

Moving on to 3.10, P-05-949, 'SAVE COWBRIDGE OLD GIRLS’ SCHOOL FROM DEMOLITION', and this was submitted by Sara Pedersen, with 5,541 signatures. Again, this has been in front of the committee a number of times, and I'd like to invite Members to discuss this petition and any action they would like to take. Joel.

Thank you, Chair. Just for transparency purposes, I think, in my role as councillor, even though it's a different authority, I've been involved in the past with this campaign. I note it has been going for some time, but I'm conscious we've got a new change of Government now in theory—you know, it's the same Government but with new Ministers in place. I would very much like to know what the new Minister's view is on this, really. Would it be possible for us to write as a committee to the new Minister, really? Knowing the area as I do, it's a beautiful looking building. It's got a lot of historical significance to it, I believe, and I think it's just something that we could look just to fight a little bit more for, so that all avenues are looked at before closing it, really.

Okay, thank you, Joel. Any other comments? Luke.

Thank you, Chair. I would agree with Joel. I think it's worth finding out what the new Minister's opinion is on this. I would, however—. Perhaps this is something we would need to discuss at a later date as a Petitions Committee, but we will need to decide where we draw the line under this as well, because this is something that I think the Government has made their position quite clear on, and we know, of course, this has been a campaign that's been running for quite some time. It's always a difficult discussion to have, really, isn't it, because we want to ensure that the concerns of the petitioners are realised and that we represent them as best we can, but I think we do need to consider where we draw the line on this one. Otherwise, this could be something that could be with us for another couple of years on top, you know. I'm not sure what other Members think about that.

I certainly would agree, Luke, there. There was the suggestion to write to the new Minister, and perhaps we could do that, as suggested by Joel. Let's see the response to that. They are difficult decisions, but we are here to make those difficult decisions as well, so I would agree with you, Luke. Buffy, I can see you've raised your hand too.

I just wanted to echo, Chair, everything Luke's said. I totally agree with him and Joel. But yes, as far as what Luke said, I think that is the right course of action to take.

Well, thank you, Buffy, for that. I think we'll action Joel's suggestion of writing to the new Welsh Government Minister, and we'll bring this forward to a future committee to discuss further.

The following two items are grouped together for consideration: 3.11, P-05-1073, 'Create and build a new branch of National Museum Wales dedicated to Welsh involvement in colonialism', and this was submitted by Kieran Sawdon with 103 signatures; and 3.12, P-05-1086, 'Create a National Museum for Welsh Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic History and Heritage', and it was submitted by Yasmin Begum with 490 signatures. Can I invite Members to discuss these very important petitions together? Luke, I can see your hand up already.

Diolch. Diolch, Chair. I'll be honest; I'm in full agreement with both petitions. Just for transparency, I actually know Kieran from a previous life. I think it's important for us to actually realise the contribution of migrants and immigrants in particular in Tiger bay and the contribution that they made to making the bay, and, well, Cardiff, the coal capital of the world back in the industrial revolution period. I think it is quite a shame, actually, that we're talking about putting a military museum in the bay but we're not talking about establishing a museum to recognise the contributions of the people who live there, you know. I would ask if the committee would consider writing back to the Welsh Government to ask whether they would consider rehousing the Tiger bay archive within a more accessible location, so that the public can go in and have a look and learn about the important contribution of the community in what is called Cardiff Bay now, but it was called Tiger bay at the time.

Thank you, Luke. I'm in agreement with that and I can see that Joel wanted to come in.

Yes, thank you, Chair. It's only a quick thing, really. Since I received the agenda, I've been trying to rack my brains, because I'm pretty sure that there was a museum at one point down in Cardiff Bay that was about the history of Tiger bay and about the involvement that the immigrant community had within the history of Wales, but I don't know why it ceased. That's the only concern; if it stopped, there was probably a reason why. Maybe it was, for want of a better term, uneconomical for the museum to continue and that's why the archives were moved to the national—you know, the archives, the Glamorgan Archives. So, that's the only concern that I would have there in the sense of how could the museum survive now if it didn't previously, you know—that's one of the concerns there. But obviously, I'm happy to support Luke's recommendation that we continue this further, but that's the only concern that I have. I might be wrong but I remember there being a museum like this once in Cardiff, and it's not there anymore.

You may well be right, I'm not sure, but there certainly was an event in the Pierhead building in the last Senedd around Tiger bay. I know this—and I'll place it on the record—because it was a good friend of mine who had a lot of involvement with that. But, Luke, I can see that you want to come in to respond to some comments.

I think Joel is right. I think there was a museum at some point, and I was actually about to say exactly what you did there, Chair, in terms of something being in the Pierhead in the last Senedd. I think it's important, though, even if it's an economical consideration. I don't think that the budgetary stuff should come into cultural stuff. I think it's important that we remember where we come from and remember, as well, the contributions of various communities in making Wales what it is today. So, I think we should really push the Welsh Government for an answer on this if I'm totally honest.

Okay. Buffy, I can see you're in agreement with that too. So, I think we can go to the Welsh Government with the points raised by Luke, but also note the comments made by Joel as well. Thank you.

Item 3.13, P-05-1069, 'Save the farmland and green fields at Cosmeston', submitted by Michael Philip Garland, with 5,272 signatures. I'll invite Members to discuss this petition. Again, this petition has been in front of the committee a number of times and the previous committee too, so, any comments from Members? Joel.

Thank you, Chair. I suppose it touches upon what we mentioned about the previous planning application that we've just discussed, and essentially, how far do we wish for it to continue with there being no clear outcome visible, I suppose? I note, with the Cowbridge one, there was still that opportunity to write to the Minister. It looks like, with this application, we've written to the Minister and have had a response, and I don't think there's much left to do, unfortunately. I know that there's talk about maintaining a watching brief over it and obviously, I would be supportive of that if that's what the committee wants to do. But I don't necessarily know that that will achieve much, though.

Any other comments from Members? Buffy. Buffy first and I'll bring Luke in afterwards.

I agree with Joel. I think that we've exhausted all avenues here, and like Joel said, we could end up to-ing and fro-ing again, but for how long? So, I'd be happy to close the petition if other Members would be.

Thank you for that, Buffy. Luke.

Thank you, Chair. I think, again, it's one of those difficult decisions that we have to take as a committee and they're never pleasant. But reading up on this last night and what the Petitions Committee has done, I am finding it difficult to see what else we can do. It is an unfortunate situation and it is, again, as I said, a difficult decision to make, but as you said, Chair, we’re here to make those difficult decisions, unfortunately for us. It is a very unfortunate situation.

Thank you, Luke. I think the suggestion there is to close this particular petition, and I support that too. Are Members in agreement? I think so, yes. If we could close that petition, Clerk, and thank the petitioner too.

Moving on to petitions that have now been resolved. The following three items are grouped together for consideration: item 3.14, P-05-856, ‘Ban the sale of puppies by pet shops and all commercial 3rd party dealers in Wales’, Lucy’s law, submitted by CARIAD, with 11,195 signatures; item 3.15, P-05-915, ‘Call for better enforcement of puppy farms in Wales’, submitted by Laura Clays, with 112 signatures, from my constituency of Alyn and Deeside; and 3.16, P-05-939, ‘Immediate embargo on new dog breeding licences, licence renewals and planning applications until regulations are fit for purpose and enforceable’, again submitted by CARIAD, with 1,738 signatures. I’m pleased to say we have a success story early on in this new committee, where regulations were passed by the Senedd in March 2021. So, I think the committee could welcome this particular news. I believe that I’m right in saying—I think Luke helped me out with this—it was actually last Friday where it came into law and practice. I can see smiling faces from Members on the screens. I’d like to say ‘well done’ to all those who signed this petition and pushed this forward. It was an extremely important petition, and I think we can take this one as a success. If we could write to the two petitioners who submitted the petitions, we’ll thank them for all their work in this important agenda.

Item 3.17, P-05-1068, ‘Allow socially distanced meets in private gardens to follow science and avoid isolation’, submitted by Rachel Emma Ovett with 273 signatures. I’ll ask Members to discuss this petition. Joel.

Thank you, Chair. As you mentioned before, with the changes in legislation now, we can do this now. Hopefully we’ll still be able to do this in a couple of months' time. It’s difficult to say at the moment, unfortunately, with the rise in infection rates. But I think, for the time being, it’s probably worth closing the petition and thanking the petitioner.

Thank you, Joel. I can see Members—. Luke.

Thank you, Chair. I agree with Joel, but I can see there are some additional comments as part of the petition; I think we as a committee could tell the petitioner that we will take this into account as we develop our work programme.

We can certainly do that. I can see that Members are in agreement with both comments there.

Moving on to item 3.18, P-06-1191, ‘Abolish social distancing measures at all Welsh weddings this Summer following July 15th 2021’.

‘Weddings are significant life events for many couples who are looking to begin their family lives. Due to the Covid-19 restrictions, many couples have had to postpone their wedding plans several times as they do not want to lose the weddings of their dreams. This has subsequently put many lives on hold and has significantly impacted the mental health of thousands. Could wedding guests provide negative test results, or evidence of two vaccinations in order to attend unrestricted weddings?’

This was submitted by Owain Evans, with 809 signatures. I know this is an extremely important petition for many people across Wales and the United Kingdom. I’ll say ‘congratulations’ to a good friend of mine who I went to school with, who finally got married on Sunday. So, congratulations to Mr and Mrs Worrall, who had to postpone their wedding a number of times due to restrictions as well. But, on that, I'll invite Members to speak further to the petition. Luke.

Cheers, Chair. I completely sympathise with the petition. I'm going through the whole process myself of organising my wedding, and it has been a hell of a headache—probably more of a headache than the election was, if I'm honest. But I won't go any further on that. I think, given where we are at now with the pandemic, it might be worth us considering closing this petition for the time being, and, of course, thanking the petitioner as well for highlighting the issue, because, I'm sure—well, as you've already said, Chair, there have been many people who have been in this position, and I can really sympathise with that as well, because I've been in that position as well. But it's important, I think, to thank the petitioner, because this is a very important issue for a lot of people.

Thank you for that, Luke. I can see Members in agreement, and I'm sure we all look forward to congratulating you when the time comes too.

Moving on, that concludes today's public business, so I thank Members and the clerking team and the back-room team for that. We will now go into private session to discuss our ways of working and our strategic approach to the remit we have as a committee. Therefore, I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), that the committee resolves to meet in private for item 5. Are Members content? They are. Diolch yn fawr. Just before we do close, finally, just so the public are aware, our next committee meeting will be on 20 September. So, next week, same time. We look forward to seeing you there. I'll formally close this meeting now. Diolch yn fawr.