Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee

Item 3, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered. The Senedd Cymru (Representation of the People) Order 2025. The committee first considered the draft Senedd Cymru (Representation of the People) Order 2025 at its meeting on 2 June and laid its response the same day. Members will know that the committee has exchanged a series of letters with the Cabinet Secretary on the Order. The committee last wrote to the Cabinet Secretary on 7 July as the relevant Welsh Minister. The Counsel General has responded on behalf of the Government as the Cabinet Member responsible for the legislative programme.

Members may wish to note that the Counsel General is concerned that the committee's focus on drafting and typographical points and inconsistencies between the English and Welsh texts diminishes its wider and more important scrutiny role, and had a detrimental impact on the quality of the debate on this Order. The Counsel General states that she would welcome a meeting with the committee and with the Llywydd to consider how all parties can work together to improve the scrutiny process. Members, do we have any comments for the public session? We may wish to discuss in private. Well, only one thing I'll say in public is: why are the Welsh Government making errors of drafting and typographical points, and inconsistencies in English and Welsh? It's not diminishing the importance of scrutiny; it's pointing out the errors that are being made by the Government. These are not being made by Ministers. Ministers are not expected to check these things, but there's a serious Welsh Government civil service problem that the Welsh Government seem unwilling or unable to address. We can deal with it in more detail later, but I want to put those words on the record.

Notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement—correspondence from the Welsh Government: meetings of inter-ministerial groups. There are 15 papers under this item, so can we go straight to handling them, which is several pages along? We have a number of notifications this week of inter-ministerial group meetings. The majority of notifications are of meetings that have already taken place, and these include: a meeting of the inter-ministerial standing committee that took place in June—there was a discussion around a range of issues, including the review of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 and its interaction with common frameworks, the Sewel convention and UK legislation; a meeting of the IMG for housing, communities and local government, which also took place in June; a meeting of the IMG on justice in July, which discussed prison capacity and potential reforms to reduce the women’s prison population; a meeting of the British-Irish Council summit held in Northern Ireland in June; a meeting of the Interministerial Group for Elections and Registration on 30 June, which discussed the implementation of online absent voting ahead of the Welsh and Scottish Parliament elections; a meeting of the culture and creative industries IMG on 16 July; a meeting of the environment, food and rural affairs IMG on 22 August; and a meeting of the business and industry IMG, which was due to take place on 9 September but later postponed. Finally, we have a notification in relation to an upcoming meeting of the inter-ministerial group on net zero, energy and climate change—one virtual meeting, which was due to take place on 9 September, has been moved to the seventeenth, and one in-person meeting on 21 October. Have Members got any comments? No. Okay. Thank you very much.

Correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Trefnydd and Chief Whip: budget cover transfer to support digital inclusion activity in Wales. The Cabinet Secretary’s letter informs us of a funding agreement to support digital inclusion activity in Wales for the financial year 2025-26. Have Members got any comments? No.

Papers to note. We've correspondence from the Chairs' forum to committees on reviewing committee effectiveness in the sixth Senedd. The Chairs' forum has written to all Senedd Committees with the aim of identifying whether committee procedures and practices can be improved in the seventh Senedd. A consultation has been launched and committees have been asked to respond with an extended deadline of 10 October. We may wish to discuss a potential response in private session. Do Members have any comments that they wish to make in public? No.

Item 5.2, correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning to the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee on the Data (Use and Access) Bill. The Cabinet Secretary has written to the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee in response to its recommendation that the Welsh Government provide updates on its discussions with the UK Government on EU data adequacy and any implications the Bill may have on trade until the UK’s adequacy status beyond December 2025 is secured. The Cabinet Secretary states in her letter that the European Commission has announced a six-month extension to the existing EU data adequacy decisions for the UK until 27 December this year. The European Commission is now assessing whether the UK’s new legal framework continues to provide an adequate level of protection for personal data. Based on this assessment, the European Commission has indicated it will decide whether to renew the EU data adequacy decisions for the UK. The Cabinet Secretary concludes her letter by saying:

'Whilst this assessment is ongoing, the Welsh Government will continue to engage with the UK Government in relation to the EU’s data adequacy decisions for the UK through the appropriate inter-governmental channels.'

Do Members have any comments? No.

Correspondence in relation to the UK Government response to the review of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 and public consultation. Members are invited to note the letter from the UK Minister of State for Trade Policy and Economic Security and the UK Government response to the review to which the committee also submitted evidence. We also have a letter and written statement from the Deputy First Minister, detailing the Welsh Government’s views on that response. The Deputy First Minister says in his letter that

'the changes being made by the UK Government, both immediately preceding the review and now at its conclusion, are a welcome step in the right direction to address our shared concerns with UKIMA. But we believe this should be the beginning of an ongoing process to improve the governance of the UK internal market, not the end.

'I am now keen for my officials to work with their UK Government counterparts to refine, clarify and implement the proposals. We need to make these work whilst continuing to make the case for longer-term legislative change.'

Do Members have any comments? Alun. Croeso.

I think that the UK Government review of UKIMA is inadequate. It doesn't, as far as I understand, include some of the financial elements to it, which have been most difficult and damaging. In terms of taking this forward, whilst I recognise what the Deputy First Minister is saying, I think that his response is inadequate as well. So we need, as a committee, I think, to look hard at the view that we're going to take on this. We've taken, Gareth, quite a firm stance on this in the past, and I think that we should maintain that firm stance and say that UKIMA is an affront to the constitutional structure of the United Kingdom and the democracy of the United Kingdom and that it needs to be repealed and replaced by an agreed framework between all of the Governments of the United Kingdom.

Thank you, Alun. Anyone else? No. Okay.

I'll take from that that everybody agrees with me.

Well, no-one has disagreed with you, Alun, so—.

The policy of the Government is still in favour of repeal, isn't it? But what's not clear from the response of the Deputy First Minister is what's going to happen now. They've restated their policy; that isn't the policy of the Westminster Government. Okay, they welcomed the changes as far as they go, but is that it, then? They should be emphasising their disappointment, perhaps, more than the welcome they've given to the small changes in the right direction. What's the mechanism now for refocusing the debate on the fundamental inequities of the Act and the need for repeal?

I agree.

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I don't fully agree with all of Alun's points. There's much that I do agree with, but there are some benefits to the idea of UKIMA within a United Kingdom. There are some other points that I'll make in private session, I'm sure.

Thank you, Sam. I tend to agree with you that there are advantages in having this sorted out at a UK level.

Next we have nine Welsh Government responses to reports we published last term. Correspondence from the Welsh Government: the Welsh Government’s response to the committee’s report on the Welsh Government’s supplementary legislative consent memorandum No. 3 on the Employment Rights Bill. Members will wish to note for the record this Welsh Government response to our report, which was received before the summer recess. The response was circulated to Members prior to the Plenary debate, which took place on 15 July. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? If not, we’ll move on to the next item.

Correspondence from the Welsh Government: the Welsh Government’s response to the committee’s report on the Welsh Government’s legislative consent memorandum on the Crime and Policing Bill. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government’s response to our report on the Crime and Policing Bill. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? No.

Correspondence from the Welsh Government: the Welsh Government’s response to the committee’s report on the Welsh Government’s supplementary legislative consent memorandum on the bus Bill. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government’s response to the conclusions and recommendations in our report on the Bus Services (No. 2) Bill. The Committee is considering its draft report on memorandum No. 3 later this afternoon. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? No. We’ll move on to the next item.

Item 5.7, correspondence from the Welsh Government: the Welsh Government’s response to the committee’s report on the Welsh Government’s legislative consent memorandum on the Victims and Courts Bill. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government’s response to our report on the Victims and Courts Bill. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? If no, we’ll move on.

Correspondence from the Welsh Government: the Welsh Government’s response to the committee’s report on the Welsh Government’s legislative consent memorandum on the Animal Welfare (Import of Dogs, Cats and Ferrets) Bill. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government’s response to our report on the Animal Welfare (Import of Dogs, Cats and Ferrets) Bill. The committee is considering its draft report on memorandum No. 2 later this afternoon. Members will be aware that a legislative consent debate is scheduled to take place in Plenary tomorrow afternoon. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? No.

Shall we deal with items 5.9 and 5.10 together for discussion? Item 5.9, correspondence from the Minister for Mental Health and Wellbeing: the Welsh Government’s response to the committee’s report on the Welsh Government’s supplementary legislative consent memorandum No. 3 on the Mental Health Bill. Correspondence from the Minister for Mental Health and Wellbeing: the Welsh Government’s response to the committee’s report on the Welsh Government’s supplementary legislative consent memorandum No. 4 on the Mental Health Bill. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government’s response to our reports on the Mental Health Bill. The Committee is considering its draft report on memorandum No. 5 later this afternoon. Do Members have any comments they may wish to make? No.

Item 5.14, correspondence in relation to the Homelessness and Social Housing Allocation (Wales) Bill. We have a number of items of correspondence in relation to the Homelessness and Social Housing Allocation (Wales) Bill, including correspondence exchanged with the Cabinet Secretary following the ministerial evidence session on 23 June, and we also have correspondence between the Welsh Local Government Association and the Local Government and Housing Committee. We'll be considering a draft of our report on the Bill in private session later. Do Members have any comments that they wish to make at this stage? No.

Item 5.15, written statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs: Welsh Government response to the Independent Water Commission report. The Deputy First Minister welcomes the publication of the Independent Water Commission’s report and states that the Welsh Government will be working collaboratively with the UK Government in respect of a White Paper, which will be published this autumn. Do Members have any comments? No.

Item 5.16, correspondence from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs: the UK Emissions Trading Scheme Authority interim responses on the expansion of the UK ETS. The Deputy First Minister’s letter informs us of the publication of interim authority responses on the expansion of the UK ETS, which are accessible on our agenda. He states that the full authority responses will be published prior to the laying of legislation to enact the changes, and that the Senedd, along with other UK Parliaments, will have the opportunity to scrutinise plans once they are finalised. Do Members have any comments?

Correspondence with the Lady Chief Justice of England and Wales: invitation to provide oral evidence. Members are invited to note the Lady Chief Justice’s acceptance to give evidence to us early next year in relation to justice in Wales. We will publish the arrangements closer to the time. Do Members have any comments apart from to welcome it?

Correspondence from the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership: regulations in relation to Part 3 of the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Act 2023. The Minister’s letter informs us that a consultation has been launched to gather public views on draft regulations in relation to Part 3 of the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Act 2023. The consultation is open until 14 October. If Members are content to note it, then we’ll move on to the next item. Happy to note?

Correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care: His Majesty's Prison Parc. It's taken me some time to get around the change from Her to His Majesty. Following a visit the committee made to Parc prison in June, we wrote to the Welsh Government to draw relevant issues to its attention. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care has responded. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? No.

Can I move a motion in accordance with Standing Orders 17.42(vi) and (ix) and invite the committee to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting? Do Members agree? Yes. We're now moving into private session.