Plenary

I would ask—[Interruption.] I would ask the Member to reflect—[Interruption.] I do apologise—does the Member want to hear the response? Is it okay for me to respond? Thank you.

What I would say is that the draft budget has been fully published. It's there for scrutiny. Clearly, there is a committee established to directly scrutinise this issue. We're entirely transparent. This is how we want to govern. And that change can be seen in the way that we want to work on a cross-party basis and be open. We are serious about addressing these deficiencies that we have, unfortunately, inherited. That is on the record; it is transparent. And, of course, the Cabinet Minister for Finance will be scrutinised specifically on this by the Finance Committee.

I'm asking for a Government statement on the future of renewable energy in Wales. My long-standing support for a tidal lagoon in Swansea, onshore and offshore wind turbines and solar power is a matter of public record. We are awaiting technological advances in solar power so that the energy can be generated without direct sunlight, and we also need improved battery storage. We have onshore wind planning applications that have to be dealt with. I'm not asking for individual planning decisions, just a direction of travel. We also have a proposal to produce substantially more offshore wind energy—the cheapest form of energy. Universities can play a major part in these developments. I'd like to see a plan for the development of renewable energy. I hope that you'll say that you're developing one, but a statement on current intent would be very beneficial.

Thank you. I would encourage the Member to look at the statement of priorities that the Cabinet Minister made, which outlines the priorities in this regard. Clearly, as you've noted, that work will continue and updates will be given. But I would encourage the Member to look at that statement of priorities.

Trefnydd, I'd like to request a statement from the Welsh Government on pavement parking. I've received a number of representations from constituents in Haverfordwest regarding vehicles that are regularly parked on pavements and, indeed, across dropped kerbs. This is not only an inconvenience for pedestrians but also presents a significant accessibility and, indeed, safety concern for many in the community. Now, as the Cabinet Minister will be aware, Scotland has already introduced legislation banning pavement parking, while, in England, the UK Government has consulted on the issue and is providing local authorities with additional enforcement powers to address obstructive parking. Wales should not be the only nation in Great Britain without a clear approach to tackling this problem. Therefore, I'd be grateful if the Welsh Government could provide a statement setting out its position on pavement parking so that we can understand what action is being taken to address this issue and how local authorities are being supported to improve accessibility, enhance road safety and ensure that our communities are safer and more inclusive for everyone.

I thank the Member for raising that important issue. I am pleased that the relevant Deputy Minister is here to hear those comments. He has expressed that he is willing to provide such an update. I very much hope that we can all convey a very clear message to people who do this that it is dangerous, that it is irresponsible. I'm sure that many of us will have received casework emerging from these issues too. So, if we could also reinforce the fact that many of these things are already illegal, and, as the Deputy Minister said, an update will be provided to Members.

Trefnydd, I'd like to ask for two statements, please, the first one on the school organisation code, from the Cabinet Minister for education, because we're seeing yet again in Powys that the local authority is going out to consultation potentially about closing another small primary school, in Gladestry, which would be a huge shame and against the Liberal Democrats' own manifesto, and the council said it wouldn't close any small schools. So, I'd like an update from the Cabinet Minister about the school organisation code, and how we can protect small schools in rural areas.

I'd also like a second statement, please, following on from what was mentioned in First Minister's questions, about Powys Teaching Health Board's potential decision to reduce bed capacity in hospitals across the Powys area. This will have a huge knock-on effect for people in my constituency. Yes, I know that Welsh Government has got no direct operational control over this matter, but I'd be very interested to know what steps the Welsh Government can take regarding governance so they can actually step in if a health board is taking decisions against the will of local people.

I thank the Member for those two questions. In terms of the first, I would ask you to raise your concerns with the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language. Clearly, there are a number of reviews under way at the moment.

In terms of the second matter, clearly, you had the opportunity to raise this with the First Minister too. You'll be aware that there have been a number of occasions already. The Minister for health has outlined over the past few weeks the importance of services across Wales being available consistently and that that access is consistent. That's why we as a Government have already committed to commission a feasibility study to establish a new, rapid diagnostic centre in Powys. Clearly, this is a live matter in terms of the health board, but I certainly hope that you will have heard the commitment from the First Minister and the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care in terms of the importance of ensuring services for everyone, wherever they are in Wales.

I too would like to ask for a statement on the alleged overspends that the Plaid Cymru Government keep referring to from the last Government. I am very well aware that the Government was left £120 million in capital, £337 million in consequentials, and I am not aware of any overspends, and funding pressures within the NHS are not the same as overspends. Now, I know feelings are running high about Plaid Cymru's supplementary budget, but making incorrect statements is not the correct way to build a consensus on the budget. Show us the figures if you have any evidence of any overspends.

You will be aware that this is available. There is a debate on the supplementary budget next week. There is also an opportunity for the Senedd to scrutinise. We're being entirely open in terms of the situation that we have inherited. There are commitments that have been made without ensuring that there is a budget in place for them in coming years. That's true in the portfolio that I've inherited, and it's true for all Ministers. The forward look hasn't been adequate, and it is a far more challenging situation than I personally from my discussions with Mark Drakeford on some of these issues had expected—but, certainly, this isn't the situation that we've inherited. As you know full well, when you're in Government, the access that you have to information is very different to what you receive in access talks or as an opposition party. So, that transparency and that work is being done. We have the debate next week, and we are more than willing to be transparent with everyone within this Senedd so that we can address the very real challenges that we've inherited.

I would like to request a statement from the Welsh Government on Transport for Wales services between north Wales and Cardiff, particularly relating to the impact on football supporters travelling between the two regions. Constituents and football supporters have brought to my attention significant concerns regarding rail connectivity for supporters attending the first championship fixture of the season between Cardiff City and Wrexham on Monday 17 August. That's the first game of the season. With the match scheduled for an 8 o'clock at night kick-off, the last direct Transport for Wales service back to Wrexham is timetabled to depart before the game has concluded. As a result, supporters wishing to travel home by rail after the match are left with no practical option. It's absolutely shocking that the next rail journey doesn't arrive in Wrexham until approximately 06:45 in the morning, taking in excess of eight hours and requiring overnight travel. Furthermore, should that service be missed, there is no further rail connection available until the early hours of Tuesday morning.

Where are supporters expected to go? Are they expected to sleep on park benches? So, given the Welsh Government's stated commitment to improving transport connectivity across Wales, will the Cabinet Secretary outline what discussions have taken place with Transport for Wales regarding late evening services between Cardiff and north Wales? Thank you. Diolch.

Well, you're very fortunate that the Deputy Minister for Transport is here in the Chamber and has heard that. I would suggest that you follow up in writing. I would encourage any Member who is aware of where there are perhaps issues in terms of services, particularly when it comes to major events, to be making the Minister aware of them. Work has been done to try to ensure that there is greater provision, particularly to ensure that for major events. We have seen that in terms of events in Cardiff over this summer. But, clearly, if there are further concerns and problems—. The Minister has heard, but I would appreciate it if Members would make him aware of them by writing to him as well.

Can I call for a statement on the future of independent schools in Wales? Just last week in Ruthin, in my own constituency, we saw the announcement of the closure of Ruthin School. It survived 700 years, including the civil war, but it couldn't survive two years of a vindictive Labour Government introducing VAT on fees and scrapping charitable status and ramping up the cost of employment. Hundreds of pupils have been affected, hundreds of staff, suppliers, and of course the whole community in Ruthin is shocked, and this will have a devastating economic impact. I think what people need to know is what the Welsh Government is going to do to lobby for sensible change from the UK Government. And I would like to know what specifically is being done to support people that have been affected by the situation in terms of the announcement in Ruthin. We need to be sure that the Welsh Government will be just as reactive to the needs of the local community when job losses are announced in independent schools as they are in steel and other sectors.

The Member had an opportunity earlier this afternoon to ask a very similar question of the First Minister, and will have heard the First Minister's response. If there are any further considerations, I would ask you to write to the Minister for education. Clearly, ensuring that there are more teachers available has been a priority for us. There are a number of things that the Cabinet member for education has already outlined. So, if you are talking about the workforce, then certainly I would ask you to have that conversation specifically with her, and the rest of the Members representing that area.

Trefnydd, every year, around 400 people in Wales are diagnosed with leukaemia. The outcomes can vary significantly depending on where they live, with many patients facing delays in diagnosis and unequal access to specialist treatment and care. Leukaemia UK's recent report, 'Turning ambition into progress for people with leukaemia in Wales', sets out practical recommendations to improve outcomes, including early diagnosis, equitable access to treatment, stronger cancer leadership and better data collection—all of this ensuring that leukaemia is fully reflected in future cancer policy. Leukaemia sufferers and their friends, family and loved ones in my constituency of Gwynedd Maldwyn have asked that the Minister for health and social care considers these recommendations and set out what action the Welsh Government will take to ensure that people affected by this disease no longer face a postcode lottery in accessing the care and support that they need.

May I thank the Member for raising this exceptionally important matter? I'm sure that all of us, unfortunately, will know people who have suffered from leukaemia and are aware of the communication from constituents in terms of the postcode lottery that the Member referred to. I'm sure you'll be aware of the commitments made by this Government to tackling and ensuring that there is equitable treatment available to everyone who receives a cancer diagnosis. I would ask you specifically if you could write to the appropriate Minister on your constituent's behalf, and I'm sure that you'll receive an update.

Prynhawn da, Drefnydd. Could I ask, please, for a statement on the worsening state of youth unemployment in Wales, particularly in rural areas like Powys? Data uncovered by the Welsh Liberal Democrats earlier this month show that youth unemployment in Wales is now the highest in the United Kingdom at 16.5 per cent. Wales has seen the steepest rise of any UK nation, increasing by 9.5 percentage points in the last year, almost nine times faster than Scotland and five times the UK average. Scotland can do it as a devolved nation, tackle youth unemployment, so I would like to ask you what is the Welsh Government doing in order to address youth unemployment and ensure that our young people, particularly in rural areas, are not leaving Wales for England for jobs, but are remaining in Wales and have the opportunity to work. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Well, thank you to the Member for raising that important issue. As you will be aware, there is a debate scheduled for next week, for which you, with Shav Taj and Paul Rock, are tabling the motion, and we're pleased that that debate will take place because it is an important issue, and one I'm sure a number of Members will wish to contribute to. We've also seen, of course, the publication of Alan Milburn's interim report into young people and work, and Ministers will be meeting with Alan Milburn to discuss his findings very shortly and, of course, will be able to update the Senedd accordingly. We do recognise the growing risk of young people becoming disengaged from education, employment or training, alongside the pressures facing further education providers, and we remain absolutely committed to ensuring that all young people have the skills, confidence and experience needed to succeed in a changing labour market. But, as I said, I am pleased that we are having that debate next week, and there will be, of course, a Government response to that debate.

A constituent who is a trustee of the charity Haemophilia Wales has written to me regarding the infected blood scandal, saying, 'Many of our members are now elderly and frail after decades of struggle. We just want the claims for fair and just compensation to be progressed sooner rather than too late.' Will the Trefnydd arrange a statement from the Minister for health and care on ongoing delays to the infected blood inquiry compensation scheme, particularly to explain what representations are being made to the UK Government to speed up delivery, especially for elderly survivors and for all those affected? Diolch.

Thank you for raising that issue. The Member may be aware that the current First Minister was chair of the cross-party group when it came to campaigning here, alongside many other previous Members of the Senedd, who were very vocal on this matter. I will certainly ask the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care to provide an update.

I'd like to ask the Welsh Government for a statement outlining how they would expect councils to interact with elected Members in their area. I recently received a protocol from Flintshire County Council. It's described as a protocol for dealing with Members of the Senedd and Members of Parliament and their constituency staff. This is a four-page document, and there's quite a worrying line within this that says that MSs and MPs are asked not to liaise directly with councillors, and the council has asked that its councillors must not engage directly with MSs or MPs outside this process, unless expressly authorised by the chief executive. Now, I would find that wholly inappropriate that elected councillors have to get the permission of a chief executive to speak to other elected members. I'd appreciate a statement from the Welsh Government on their views on this and whether Flintshire County Council are perhaps barking up the wrong tree.

Well, I thank the Member for raising that issue.

I was unaware of this matter, and I think it's really important that we gain an understanding of what led to this approach. I think, clearly—and I heard from the views of Members expressed whilst you were speaking—that it's important that there is constructive partnership working across elected representatives for the benefit of the people that we all represent. I've benefited as a Member of the Senedd from working cross-party with councillors without having to approach a chief executive in the past, and, as a councillor in the past, I took that approach too. It's about putting your constituents first and being able to work together and set aside political differences. So, I would share the Member's concern. We would expect local government to fully engage appropriately in the democratic process. It is, obviously, a matter for the local authority to answer, but I will also make the Cabinet Minister for local government aware. I'm sure the fact that it has been raised here will encourage Members representing the area of Flintshire council to perhaps have that constructive dialogue with the chief executive.

Diolch, Lywydd. Trefnydd, a comprehensive school in my constituency has decided to remove skirts as a uniform option for all girls from its uniform policy, due to a few girls spoiling it for the many by hitching their skirts too high. If a minority of pupils were not following the rules, surely those select few pupils should have been disciplined, instead of removing the skirt option for every girl. This seems more like collective punishment rather than a reasonable solution. Boys still appear to have a choice of uniform that they wear, whilst girls have had the choice taken away from them. This doesn't seem right and, quite frankly, I think sends the wrong message. What makes this even more concerning is that the school says that it values the student voice, yet has acknowledged that the majority of pupils were against this decision. The strength of feeling from parents has also been very clear on this, so I'm hoping the school still will change its mind on this. So, will the Minister for education make a statement outlining what guidance the Welsh Government gives schools on fair and proportionate uniform policies? Diolch.

Well, you will be aware that that policy is published on the Welsh Government's website. I would suggest that there is an issue for you to take directly to the governing body of the school, which has the responsibility in terms of school uniforms. As someone who had to campaign and petition to be able to wear trousers in my school, I am surprised that the pupils are not also campaigning in the same way. One of my first political campaigns, actually, was to try and get that reversed. So, I would suggest, in the first place, it is a governing body decision; it's certainly not a Welsh Government decision, and it would be appropriate for you to make representations at that level.

I want the new agency to lead a proactive and highly targeted approach to attracting inward investment into Wales, building on established strengths while sharpening focus and promoting Wales's competitive strengths internationally.

Innovation is central to our economic development strategy and to closing the productivity gap. I see the development agency as a body with innovation at its core. Innovation is so much more than new product development; it ensures the spread, diffusion and adoption of new technology and helps drive economic competitiveness and productivity improvements. Research tells us that much of the growth in productivity comes from innovation and new ideas, rather than simply increasing labour or capital. In simple terms, innovation matters because it helps the economy grow, makes businesses more competitive, and improves people's standard of living over time.

As set out in our 100-day plan, we're establishing an expert panel to advise us on the design of the new agency. The panel will not operate in isolation; rather, they will engage widely and be outward looking and collaborative in taking forward their work. The panel will be independent of Government and look to international best practice in economic development, as well as tapping into the knowledge and practical experience of businesses in Wales, to make sure their operating environment is fit for the future. We have set out the headline vision. The panel will help us deliver that vision, providing advice, recommendations and challenge about the form and functions of the agency. They will bring their expertise to help us develop the detailed remit and functions of the agency, helping us design and establish an organisation that swiftly supports the growth of the economy. They will provide advice on how the agency can best fit into the wider economic development landscape in Wales, working in collaboration to deliver for our country. And, crucially, they will advise on how the agency can best support productivity improvement, overcoming structural frictions around scaling, to turn opportunities into investable propositions. This new institution must be built on the Wales of today, and of tomorrow, and be able to stand out globally and connect effectively with our businesses across Wales—connecting bro and byd.

And let me be clear at the outset that the Government is not looking to re-create the previous WDA. I want the new agency to be a more agile and dynamic arm's-length body with innovation at its heart, delivering on the strategic direction set by Welsh Ministers. It will draw on best practice and the best advice from around the world, and, in turn, become an international exemplar in its own right.

Creating a new development agency is a crucial part of driving the positive changes in productivity that we need. But it needs to be a much wider, collective effort across Wales. We need, collectively and collaboratively, to look at the current landscape and work with local and regional partners to create an economic development system where roles are clear and we're all working together as one team for the people of Wales. As part of that team Wales approach, engagement with Members of the Senedd, political parties and social partners such as trade unions is key. Further discussions will take place on the best way to ensure engagement and input over the period the expert panel undertakes its work, and I hope Members across the Chamber will be willing engage positively, collaboratively and creatively with that work.

The knowledge that we need to inform the design phase of the agency already exists in businesses right across Wales and in the strong connections that Wales has further afield. That's why the advisory panel will be comprised of a core group of individuals with a wealth of business experience.

I’m pleased today to announce today that Jonathan Lewis, following appointment by the First Minister, will chair the expert advisory panel. Jonathan brings a wealth of business experience and will lead the panel’s deliberations over the coming months. I'm grateful to Jonathan for agreeing to give up his time to provide insight and advice to the Government in this crucial endeavour, and I look forward to working with him. We will now work together to recruit further members of the panel, so that its work can start fully, underpinned by relevant research that is already under way. I will provide a written statement setting out the full membership of the advisory panel in the coming weeks.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the appointment of the chair of the panel to advise on the remit and operating model of the new agency is a key stepping stone in the journey towards making Wales the best place in the United Kingdom to start a business, to grow a business, and to invest in a business. Let the work begin together. I look forward to updating the Senedd on further progress in due course.

It's a shame that, today, we're here debating the creation of yet another quango, more bureaucracy, but, of course, now we learn that we've got a panel to oversee the quango. I think the next announcement could well be the committee to oversee the panel to oversee the quango that advises the Government. I mean, it's got to come to a head at some point.

But, Minister, scrutiny is how we get better government. Now, today, Plaid has denied the Chamber that scrutiny. If taxpayers are funding this new development agency, then they deserve transparency. Minister, you say you want the new agency to provide support, advice and guidance, but you've said nothing about how. So, let me give you a suggestion. Decades ago, Welsh Labour scrapped the Welsh Development Agency, WDA1. They promised a simpler, better support mechanism for Welsh businesses. But instead, we've got a patchwork of organisations: Business Wales for advice, the Development Bank of Wales for finance, and now what we're proposing is WDA2 to sit on top. The current system is too confusing.

Minister, Business Wales returns £18 of economic value for every £1 that's invested. They do great work in helping businesses to grow and scale. The Federation of Small Businesses backs them, and entrepreneurs across Wales rely on them. So, why not bring Business Wales into the new WDA and make the support network less confusing and more accessible to businesses? One existing organisation with proven results already, not more Government bloat, not more quangos.

Minister, allow me to move on to supply chains. Attracting inward investment is important, but of course, as we all know, it's only the first step. The real test is whether that investment becomes rooted across Welsh communities up and down the country. Of course, we've learned that lesson before. In the last WDA, Wales welcomed major international employers, created thousands of jobs, and celebrated new investment, as short lived as it was. But those companies moved production elsewhere when the Government reduced the support. They took high-paying jobs with them, because their supply chains were never truly anchored in Wales, and it was easy to do so.

Other countries that have succeeded have taken a different approach. When we look at the Irish economy, inward investors are expected to work with local suppliers, strengthen domestic supply chains, and create opportunities for already established local businesses in that country to grow alongside them. In 2023, the Irish Development Agency's client companies spent £11.3 billion on Irish services and £3.3 billion on Irish materials. This is what we need the proposed WDA to do: bring companies that build up local communities, rather than hollow them out.

So, Minister, can you assure us that this new development agency will not judge success simply by the number of inward investments, but the number of companies across Wales that exist that scale up from small to medium? Will it make support for inward investment conditional on creating lasting opportunities for Welsh businesses and Welsh people, so that we don't just bring investment to Wales, but we keep the wealth that they bring with them in Wales?

And finally, Minister, you said a lot of nice words in your statement today about growth, and, of course, about productivity, and we agree with a lot of them. But what you're really telling us is that you're only just beginning to think about what the WDA will actually be. In fact, you won't even be doing that; the advisory panel will do it for you.

This is exactly why Reform are opposed to the WDA. Right now, there are around 25,000 small businesses in Wales that are looking to export abroad, but instead of helping them and actually making Wales the best place to start a business, all we're doing is setting up yet another advisory board, creating plans for plans. It's become a modus operandi for this Plaid Government. You've had years in opposition, and this is the best that you can do.

We still don't know how much the proposed WDA will cost. We don't know how many staff it will employ. We don't know how it will integrate across Government with other organisations. We've got nothing. All we've got are some warm words. So, Minister, do you agree with me that Plaid Cymru is out of its depth when it comes to the economy, and do you agree with me that Wales deserves better? Diolch.

I thank the Member for his response. I'd just like to focus a little bit on some of the areas where I think there is common ground between us. In 'Making Wales Work', which was the larger policy document that was the basis for our economic policy set out in the manifesto, we did ourselves, of course, set out the way in which the agency can be a means of ensuring, as we described it, that there is a single front door for business. So, I think we're on the same side and on the same page on that one.

The precise sequencing in terms of when you take different functions into the agency, that's a matter of detail that we're working through. But, absolutely, we want to make sure that businesses have a streamlined level of support. Of course, there will always be the need for specialist support in different areas—finance, as he described, and also exports.

And, by the way, in relation to his last point, we don't just wait for the agency to come along and solve our economic problems. I was speaking to a business last week about an investment project. I'll be doing it again, and I'm doing it all the time—talking to our teams that work in the different areas of business support. So, the existing business support is there, is ongoing. What we're trying to do is to improve the system for the future.

In relation to his point that he made about inward investment, I agree with him. Look, as I set out in my statement, we have to be strategic about inward investment. Foreign direct investment has a role in any economy, but we need to actually focus it on those areas that will be more embedded—through supply chains, as he suggests—in the Welsh economy, that actually build on our existing and possible future strengths. And that is exactly—he's right—what the Irish have done. Through a development agency called the IDA, they have emphasised aftercare, as they call it, because the majority of foreign direct investment is further investment by companies that have already come here. And that's the approach that the IDA have adopted, and it's definitely one that we would want to see at the heart of the strategy of the development agency here.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I was going to say 'Llywydd' there, but Deputy Llywydd, of course.

I think, from our perspective, we clearly do share your ambition for a new type of Wales, a reinvigorated Wales, a Wales that attracts more investment and ultimately creates good jobs, fair work jobs here in Wales. Now, I share a lot of the frustration, though, that we've been hearing across this Chamber for some time now. We keep hearing about—. In the past few weeks of this Government, a lot of stuff has been said about commissions, about reviews, about steering groups, about new people coming around the table, some old people coming around the table, and it's like pass the parcel or everyone seems to be running after each other's chair.

But when you talk to people outside the Senedd, all they want to know is: these internal arrangements that we have, are they going to make any meaningful difference in the real big bad world out there? Because we know that when it comes to business development and inward investment, those are absolutely important priorities for the Welsh Government, and we know that and we support that.

Of course, we were responsible for setting up the Development Bank of Wales, which gives really good financial support to lots of start-ups and scaling up, and of course Business Wales has already been mentioned, which offers significant specialist guidance and support. And in 2024, against all of the UK trends, Wales did see a 23 per cent increase in foreign direct investment, and as a result, in terms of all of the nations and regions, we did have the second highest percentage increase both in terms of projects, but also new jobs.

We had the Wales investment summit. We managed to secure £16 billion towards creating jobs and capital investment projects over the coming years. But, ultimately, what we want to know is: is anything going to change? Are we going to do better? Because, of course, like many other people, I've been meeting with lots of different business organisations, but also workforce, the Federation of Small Businesses, big employers like GE Aerospace in Nantgarw, and SpaceForge in Rumney. All of that really shows us that, with the right kinds of conditions, and the future of advanced manufacturing, being made right here in Wales, there are some amazing things that we can do.

And businesses, whether they're big or small, keep telling us the same thing. They need certainty. They really need that certainty, but they also need that speed when it comes to making decisions. We talk a lot about growth, and we talk about investment, and we talk about innovation. But what people are saying is that they’re really scratching their heads, trying to figure out what is this complicated new network. Yet another structure that's being set up. And of course, you mentioned that you've now got a new chair in the coming weeks, another man with a plan, and we will know who else is going to be around the table as well.

So, for me, it's a case of a real practical question here about resources. When will the new agency get new staff? Are there going to be any new staff? Or will they simply be shuffled across from other parts of Welsh Government, existing departments? And how much of this is actually going to cost the Welsh public, businesses, taxpayers? All of us in this Senedd, we've got a job to do in terms of scrutinising. And as someone who's a member of the economy committee, again, we will probably be asking you to present to us and explain to us where exactly we are going.

Because when the old development agency was brought into Government, the thinking then was that Ministers should be directly responsible, and that we shouldn't be passing the buck. And my real anxiety and worry is that it's going to be the same thing all over again, and we then end up with another situation where we have yet another bonfire of quangos, and we go back to where we were.

And if targets end up being missed or, say, businesses then end up being unhappy, who will actually be accountable? Will it be yourself, Cabinet Minister, or will it be the board of the agency? And while you're at it, can you please also clarify the constitutional status of the organisation? Are we going to need to legislate at some point for it to get going? Is it going to be like a sponsored body? Is it going to be an executive agency? Is it going to be a public corporation? Or is it going to be something else?

Also, Minister, you mentioned trade unions, and you will know the social partnership public procurement legislation makes it very clear that employers, Government and trade unions have to be around the table and make joint decisions for the future of Wales. So, how will the agency then work with the social partnership council, so that all of those individuals are involved in anything in relation to industrial strategy, investment, and also workforce planning? Ultimately, this is about jobs, jobs for the future, high-skilled jobs, and young people in Wales are really watching to see whether or not your Government is going to do any better than we did.

I'm very grateful to the Member for the spirit of her remarks and the way in which she's engaged as well with me outside of the Siambr. I think these are good questions to ask, and some of them are very much at the core of the process that we're going to go through now. And I do ask Members across the Chamber to engage with that process. Leadership is a combination, you know? It's a combination of having clarity about the goal—and we've set that goal, haven't we? Yes. But also humility to accept that you don't have all the answers. Any politician who says they've got all the answers is misconceived, all right? Some of the best answers will be out there. They will be in the collective intelligence of the nation as a whole. They'll be in people with business experience, some of whom will be involved in this process. They'll be in the trade unions and the social partners. That's why it's important that they have a role here as well.

We want to move at pace. That's one of the clear directions that we will give to the group: that we want to get to a minimal viable proposition in terms of the agency as soon as possible. The agency in year 1 of its operations will look different to the agency in year 4, so let's get there and build the future as fast as we can.

All I would say in terms of development agencies is that they have played a central role in virtually anywhere that you can think about in the nations and regions that have closed an economic gap. Few of those nations or regions that have had one have got rid of them. We're one of the few exceptions. There may be a reason for that. They are an incredibly valuable tool. Do you need to get the design right? Absolutely. Getting the right relationship in terms of how arm’s length it is from Government but how close it is to a Government is important. It's one of the key questions that we've already done a lot of thinking on, and we will continue as we go through the design process.

I would just urge her and other honourable Members to come with their ideas about how we can get this right for Wales. Because there is a great opportunity here for us to give ourselves an additional lever that we have lacked now for 20 years in order to close the gap, and that's the intention of the Government.

Minister, thank you for your statement. You began your response to the previous contribution from the Labour spokesperson by saying that they were very good questions. The good thing about putting good questions is that you want some good answers back. I have to say there were a lot of fine words in this statement. I speak as someone who believes in moving economic development out of Government, because I believe in small Government, agile Government, and using the expertise that we have in the economy. But I generally can't get a sense that much work has been done on this particular project. We can't afford to stand still. We need this up and running as quickly as possible.

Could you give me an indication—? In your previous responses you said 'as soon as possible'. You're bound to have an idea when you're going to bring this organisation into existence. Is it 12 months' time? Is it two years' time? Is it three years' time? Or is it the very end of this Senedd term? Can you at least give us a sense of when you believe that this organisation is going to come into being? I'm not going to ask you for every pound, shilling and pence, but can you give an indication on what your thinking is of the type of budget that you will make available to the organisation? As I said, I'm not asking you to drill down into every pound, shilling and pence, but give us a sense of the scale of the ambition that the Government has got.

When we look at the old WDA, it had a complete offer, from building industrial sites to gaining the planning permission and promoting foreign direct investment. Does this organisation, in your mind, need to do all that, or will it be more specific in what it does about promoting Wales as a destination for inward investment? When we look at the organisation, are we thinking of an organisation that will look like NRW with a remit letter, or will this be a unique organisation that hasn't been seen in the Welsh public landscape before? I'd be grateful for answers to those questions, because they're not particularly difficult. As I said, from this side of the table, we do support the principle and we want to offer that support, but based on the answers so far, there's too much blank space.

I am trying to keep my answers short, but let me answer one of the questions. In terms of governance, yes, we do think this should be a statutory body, so our plan is to bring forward legislation fairly soon, as soon as we can. I can't give you a specific date, to be frank with the Member, but we want it to be operational as soon as possible, so not the third or fourth year. I referred to the fact that the agency in its first year of operation will look different to its third year of operation. There will be an evolution over the course of this term. But we want to get to an operational agency as soon as we can during this term.

In relation to its budget, yes, we have looked across the world at development agencies. Substantial work has already been done. Part of that work is very much looking at budgetary scope. We have got some indicative figures that we will be sharing with the group. We have draft answers in many of these areas, but you will appreciate that the whole point of setting up the group is to share some of our thinking on what we have been able to set out already and stress-test that with some leading thinkers and people with operational experience, who are able to test the outline model that we have.

I want this to be as open and collaborative as possible, genuinely. When we have more of an outline and we have formed the group and we have something further to share, we will do that—on a bilateral basis, meeting with Members, but also through written statements at the appropriate point.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I thank the Minister for his statement.

It's a very strange tactic from the opposition, I'd say—criticising this Government for having plans when they have none.

I'm sure that everyone in this Chamber wants to see brand Wales succeeding. For this to happen, we need to help Welsh businesses to grow, to innovate, and to trade internationally. We need to attract inward investment and to increase the number of sustainable, high-quality jobs that pay well. We know that the previous business landscape was piecemeal and was often confused, meaning that businesses did not receive the support that they needed when they needed it. So, we welcome this step of creating a national development agency for Wales as a one-stop hub to support businesses of all kinds across the nation. Could the Cabinet Minister expand on how the agency will support businesses across the nation to grow, and outline the steps to ensure that a holistic approach is adopted to avoid that piecemeal system? Thank you.

I'm extremely grateful to the Member for that question. Very broadly, we've already identified that the main focus of the agency will be to enable businesses that have the potential to scale up to do that. That means tailored support, identifying the exact barriers facing every business. The position of every business that has the potential to scale up will be different. In some examples, it will mean access to capital; in other contexts, it may need assistance with exports or help with the skills base. Using an account manager approach will ensure that those businesses will receive the support that they need. To respond to one of the points that was made earlier, it's very important that the agency is focused. There was an element of mission creep in the old WDA. So, focusing specifically on supporting the ability of Welsh businesses to scale up is going to be at the heart of this agency's mission.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. An hour ago, I asked the First Minister a very important question about the future of the Development Bank of Wales and the WDA. Unfortunately, though quite unsurprisingly, I did not get an answer from the First Minister, so I will try with you. This is a really important question. I have spoken to a representative of the Development Bank of Wales who said that they hadn't a clue what was going to happen to their organisation, and subsequently, they hadn't a clue what was going to happen to their own role. Furthermore, people across Wales will be keen to know whether there will be inefficient duplication of efforts from multiple quangos in this Government. So, I ask: is the WDA going to absorb the Development Bank of Wales?

I was pleased to be able to address the board of the development bank last week, and we had an extensive discussion as well with senior executives prior to that meeting. I think that the development bank is an important element within our economic landscape; we're not about having a mini bonfire of the quangos here and then creating something else somewhere else in the landscape. It's about understanding the different roles that the different parts of the landscape can play and how they can work together. We have a vacuum at the moment that needs to be plugged in terms of a development agency. There are bits of economic development and business support that are not directly to do with access to capital at all, and those are the elements that we need a development agency to focus on.

On the specific question in relation to equity investments, there is a variety of possibilities there. It's the kind of question that I've been discussing with the development bank very productively. That will continue as we map out the interrelationship between the different elements within the landscape that we're seeking to create.

I've previously said that I was worried that you were outsourcing economic development to an arm's-length body; I'm now worried that you're outsourcing the thinking about what that body will do to an outside body, in setting up this expert group. I've read the statement three times. There are lots of warm words, but I'm still no clearer, nor am I from the answers you've given today, what this agency is actually going to be doing, Minister. So, I think more detail is urgently required—if you can't supply it in this Chamber today, then in further written statements.

I asked for a statement following the local government Minister's comments about corporate joint committees recently. I had quite a disappointing and dismissive reply from the Trefnydd. But specifically, Minister, I'd like to understand how you see this new agency interacting with the CJCs, which, I remind you, are established by statute to carry out economic development functions. How will they interact and how will you ensure, therefore, that there is a democratic voice in economic development in Wales?

When the Labour Government was elected in 1974 with the promise to create a development agency, when did they create the development agency? In 1977—three years. Here I am, six weeks in. Maybe I could be accused of being too open. I'm telling you about every step of the way. There's no Government in the world that would create a development agency without gathering together the best knowledge that they can gather. That's how you do good policy. I urge the Member, who can often be more thoughtful than he has been today—[Interruption.] I just think that in any policy development, you have to go through a period where you are understanding the strategy that you're trying to set out. That's true of any organisation. That's true of anything that you're trying to create. Because the mistakes that are made in institutional design—and there are many in state capability across the world—are because at the outset people are not clear about what they're going to achieve. We will not make that mistake. That is why we are going to root our development agency in the leading edge of thinking and practice across the world, in Wales, people from our diaspora, people with business experience in Wales. Because we cannot afford to get this wrong. That is my commitment to the people of Wales. We have to get this right; we cannot get it wrong.

Minister, for decades, we've measured our economy by gross domestic product—a number that goes up when people buy more stuff, but doesn't tell us if people are happier, healthier or financially secure. In fact, GDP often rises whilst communities fall apart and inequality grows. For women in Wales, that gap is especially stark. GDP doesn't show whether childcare is affordable, whether women working in our foundational sectors are paid fairly, whether the services and community infrastructure that they rely on are being strengthened. It doesn't reflect the unpaid care work that mostly women do, or whether economic power sits within our communities rather than elsewhere. As you establish this new development agency, will you commit to measuring success in ways that reflect real improvements in people's lives—in fair work, investment in care, stronger local supply chains, and more locally rooted, socially responsible business growth? How will you ensure that the growth that we pursue delivers genuine economic security for communities in Wales, rather than simply increasing our GDP? Diolch.

It's certainly absolutely key that our national productivity mission and closing the productivity gap is translated into real outcomes in terms of people's lives, which is why, as I set out in my statement, this ultimately is about raising living standards. It is about raising the level of wages. And I think that, in addition to the agency, of course, making sure that we are understanding both our success in achieving our productivity mission, but also how this is translated into outcomes, real outcomes, for people across Wales, is critical, which is why we have said and committed to creating an economic commission alongside the agency. This is what the Basque Country did in creating its agency, modelled on the WDA, 40 years ago. They also created an economic institute, in order to make sure, in their case, that the pathway that they adopted was one that was fair and inclusive as well.

Could I thank the Cabinet Minister today for bringing forward this statement on the new development agency for Wales? Cabinet Minister, residents in Newport and Islwyn of course want to see increased productivity, an increase in economic growth and, in particular, Welsh businesses supported. Because, regretfully, Newport and Islwyn see some of the worst economic outcomes in the whole of Wales, and has already seen major industry leave over the past years, in particular steel, and the reduction of exports from ports.

For this agency to be successful, businesses need financial certainty, and they need to be able to plan for the years to come. Cabinet Minister, what assurances can you give to multi-year funding cycles, to ensure businesses get the certainty they need? Diolch.

Well, I think that it certainly would help us greatly as a nation, I think, if we were able to achieve multi-year budgetary cycles, and that is something that the Westminster Government, I think, should agree to. Because in all of the many important things that we need to achieve for our people, having that sort of multi-year certainty at every level would be the case, and it's certainly the case for the private sector, and private sector businesses as well.

We want to create an agency and an economic landscape that will deliver for Wales for the long term, in order to create that level of certainty, and positivity as well. And that has to be rooted as much as possible in a team Wales approach. That's not to say—. Look, there will always be disagreements, as there should be, in a democracy, around this Chamber, but if—. All the evidence suggests that if we're able to at least create some degree of common ground, that gives us a solid foundation as a nation. There are certain things where, actually, what unites us in terms of what we're trying to achieve economically for our people should be more important than what divides us. That's the approach that I want to take with the development agency.

I don't have all the answers. Some of the best ideas will be around this Chamber and outside of this room. And to the extent that it's possible, even at the outset, if we can try and capture that knowledge, those best ideas, then that's the way that we create the sure foundation and certainty for the businesses that need to make their own investment decisions that he describes.

My fear is that the new development agency will become the WDA mark II. Remember LG? Remember the advanced factories around Wales left empty for decades? Remember the firms who came, took the grants and then left with the equipment we paid for?

Whilst Wales has created many successful companies, one of the failures has been to grow most of these companies into large companies. There have been successes—Admiral Group plc and Iceland Foods Ltd, for example. Two of the world's largest companies—Hewlett-Packard Company and Amazon were started in garages. Looking at two previous medium-sized companies, Alun Griffiths (Contractors) Ltd and Dawnus, Alun Griffiths sold out to Tarmac, but has now been bought back, and Dawnus collapsed owing almost £50 million. Part of the problem was caused by overseas contracts.

I could give many other examples of things that have gone wrong, but I would like to raise some key questions. How are we going to scale up businesses? How do we avoid either failure or being sold to major companies? Why do American companies grow, especially in the technology sector? What can we learn from those American companies, who don't actually have a development agency? How do we arrange sufficient financial support? How do we provide the management and marketing support needed? How do we not only grow, but sustainably grow?

Well, those are exactly the questions that we have some answers to ourselves, but we're testing them against the best in the world. So, we are talking to people about which are the best start-up and scale-up ecosystems in the world—what can we learn from them? Some of it has to be adapted and translated to our own context—we can't all become Silicon Valleys—but there are other places in the world that are similar to us, which have created the kind of environment that he describes, which is more successful at scaling up but also retaining ownership. Part of it is about looking at things like venture capital, for example, and the different stages of venture capital that are necessary.

I think that we need to set some targets, clear targets. Wales needs to have a unicorn; it's not the only target, but it's an important one. The centaurs, the level below that—that's an important element within a healthy business environment. But you need scaling density, as it's called, at every level—even small businesses, if we can help them grow. There are tried-and-tested tools and techniques that we know have worked in other places. What we're trying to do, as quickly as we can, is marshal that evidence and turn it into a plan of action for Wales, and I urge, again, everyone in this room, and beyond it, to get involved in that process.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. I welcome the statement today and the new development agency, with its focus on growing businesses across Wales. It's clear that we need better support for our businesses and the business sector, and that will require good leadership in the agency to do that. Can the Cabinet Minister tell us more about the chair of the expert panel and how the process of identifying him was carried out, please?

I'm very grateful to the Member. We were looking, really, for a very senior business leader with experience, really, of running large commercial organisations, somebody that had strong Welsh links and a shrewd understanding of the interrelationship between different sectors. Jonathan Lewis has all of these attributes in abundance: incredible experience in business, top leadership roles in major infrastructure and service sectors across the world, particularly energy, engineering, construction and technology. He's currently chair of the UK's largest port operator, Associated British Ports. Throughout his career in the energy sector, he's engaged with national development agencies around the world. He will bring, really, I think, the strategic vision and practical experience to this role in chairing the advisory group. And crucially of all, of course, he's passionate about Wales and he wants to help us set up a development agency that can help us realise our economic potential.

I want to place on the record that I have a distant family relationship with Mr Lewis by marriage. This is a small nation, but to avoid any risk of a perceived conflict, that's why I asked the Prif Weinidog to make the decision about the identification and appointment of the panel's chair. And, of course, any potential or perceived conflict of interest will be managed as they would be for any other advisory group of this kind.

I'm delighted that an individual of Jon Lewis's calibre has accepted the Prif Weinidog's invitation to chair this panel. I look forward to working with him and the rest of the panel that we're putting together to design a development agency that is capable of matching our shared ambition for Wales.

Thank you very much. Just to say quickly—

Just to say very quickly that I spoke earlier about Swansea Bay University Health Board. Although I've mentioned before and will again in the eye care debate, I am myself also an employee of Swansea Bay University Health Board. Diolch yn fawr.

May I also thank the Minister for her statement on the Welsh language today? There is so much that we can all agree on in this statement, so thank you very much for that. Some of my story: as someone who grew up in a non-Welsh speaking home but learned Welsh at school, you won't find anyone who feels more passionately than me in favour of the language. My parents decided to send me to a Welsh-medium primary school and then a bilingual secondary school. And looking back, that was one of the most precious gifts that they could have given me. And there is a family story that explains why this is such a personal issue for me. My grandfather, Silgwyn Weston, was a miner in south Wales. He didn't speak a word of English until he was around eight years old, but having received advice from his sister after she moved to university in London, he decided that the best way of providing the greatest opportunities to his children was to speak English at home. As a result, my mother lost her Welsh. And the truth is that I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to speak Welsh at all if my parents hadn’t opted for Welsh-medium education for me.

That meant that there was something very special between myself and my grandfather. We were the only two members of the family who could hold a natural conversation in Welsh. Silgwyn Weston was a very proud Welshman. And in his final years, there was one constant—his hearing was somehow always better if the conversation was about rugby or if someone spoke Welsh to him.

As a learner, the journey wasn’t always easy. There were times when my friends refused to speak to me in Welsh because they’d got to know me through the medium of English first. But, on the other side of things, one of my best friends admitted that her English wouldn’t have been half as good had she not been friends with me.

That’s the beauty of bilingualism. Learning one language doesn’t mean the loss of the other. Both strengthen each other. I spent years seeking every opportunity to improve my Welsh, particularly when I was teaching in London. Understanding, reading and writing are one thing. But the final step, and the hardest step, is reaching the point where you can naturally start a conversation in Welsh without thinking twice. And, if I'm honest, not being afraid of a bit of Wenglish helps along the way.

Today, other than the odd technical term I’m still learning, I feel very confident in my Welsh. But I also acknowledge that so much of our lives, our television programmes and our work happen in English, that learning a language is a lifelong journey. That’s why I’m proud that I have encouraged my colleagues in Reform Wales to start learning Welsh here at the Senedd. We now try to greet each other in Welsh in the office, and more and more of us are mustering the courage to use Welsh in the Chamber—as we always talk about, using a little bit of Welsh all the time. That's crucially important. So, that proves that the Welsh language doesn't have to be a party political issue.

I agree with the Minister when she said that the language is at the heart of our culture and our identity as a nation. I also welcome the fact that the Minister has made it clear that it's the Government as a whole's responsibility, not the responsibility of one Minister. If that is true, then that must be seen in all Government portfolios, not just in education. And I believe too that there is one thing that everyone in this Chamber can agree on today: the Welsh language belongs to us all, whatever your ability, your background or your politics.

But where the Government goes wrong is by suggesting that legislation, strategies and targets are the only things that will secure the future of the Welsh language. We can’t force people to love a language. We can’t legislate for enthusiasm. We can’t create Welsh-speaking communities through targets alone. The Welsh language flourishes when people choose to use it at home, in the workplace, in the pub, on the rugby pitch and on the street. I also welcome the intention to strengthen the Welsh language in digital and AI. If the Welsh language isn't available in those technologies, then there is a risk that it will be left behind.

We must ensure that the Welsh language is never used as a political weapon. The Welsh language belongs to us all, as we've already mentioned. But we must also ensure that the desire to strengthen the Welsh language doesn't draw lines between communities. The Welsh language belongs to all communities in Wales, and all communities deserve the same support in using and developing the language.

So, I'd like to ask the three questions of the Minister. First, the Minister said that the Welsh language is the responsibility of the whole Cabinet: what arrangements will be in place to ensure that every Minister is accountable for delivering that? Secondly, how will the Government measure an increase in the daily use of the language, rather than focusing on simply the number of speakers? And finally, what practical steps will be taken to help learners to use the Welsh language naturally in their communities once they have left school or completed courses?

You can't force people to love a language. It starts with opportunity, it grows with confidence and it prospers when people feel welcome to use the language. The Welsh language belongs to the people of Wales. It belongs to all of us. Thank you.

Thank you very much for those comments, and I think not only do we have experiences in our families in terms of acquiring the Welsh language, and the Welsh language coming and going over generations, but we also agree on its importance to Wales, and also our ownership of the language as people, however much Welsh we have currently. As my former colleague, who is now the archdruid—that's not a sentence that every Parliament across the world will hear every day—used to say, 'Everybody's on the bilingualism bus', and that does accept some element of Wenglish as people learn and use the language. So, I would agree with that and regret a little that I've never come across Silgwyn Weston, who sounds quite a character and star.

How will we explain and share with this Senedd that this is the responsibility of the whole Cabinet? We are already working together to identify the priorities—the actions, if you like—across every portfolio that are relevant to the Welsh language, and we will then be identifying who's responsible for those. The likelihood is that I will be speaking to the Senedd, because my responsibility is the Welsh language, but those specific policy areas will be an intentional and careful part of the work that we're doing, and there is enthusiasm to do that, as well as a requirement.

Measuring the use of the language, as you mentioned, is as important to us as supporting the work in schools, for example, and the numbers in that regard. And I think the basic principle that we're working on is that people shouldn't have to look for opportunities to use the Welsh language. That, essentially, is the message of the second commission on the language. We will be responding to that more formally over the next few months, and certainly before the end of the year, but the recommendations there encompass things like early years education, yes, but also technology, workplaces, sport, culture, planning, research, and leadership in our communities as well—so, it's much broader than education, even though that is important—and that we then maintain that use, and we all encourage each other to use the Welsh that we have.

As, I have to say, I've heard across the Chamber and going to the lift, and here and there—. There is more Welsh to be heard, and however much people have, we're very keen to encourage them to use it. So, thank you very much.

May I thank the Minister for the update? And may I add our voice to the cross-party support for the Welsh language in this Chamber now?

Everyone's sharing their own personal stories—from my perspective, a little like Helen's grandfather, I couldn't speak a word of English until I was around seven, and that was a shock to my university friends in England, but that's the unique culture that we have here in Wales.

Everyone in the Chamber will be familiar with the Welsh Government's target of a million Welsh speakers by 2050. There is a second target, however, which tends to get less attention, namely to double the use of the Welsh language in everyday life. In order to deliver both of these targets, we need to work across all departments. Now, of course, it's important to promote new speakers through childcare and the education system. The Government has been clear on its ambition for Welsh-medium childcare as part of its childcare offer. May I push for more details on how this policy will work on the ground? How many Welsh-medium childcare settings will need to be developed in order to reach the target of free childcare from nine months old? And how will the Government ensure that the number of Welsh-speaking staff will be available to meet that demand?

And as the Government implements the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Act 2025, what additional support will be available to train teachers who teach through the medium of Welsh? The Minister, like me, is supportive of the principle of opening an additional secondary school in Cardiff, but, in the national context, birth rates are declining, and yet we know that people do want to see Welsh-medium provision in their communities. So, what support will the Government provide to local authorities in order to sustain Welsh-medium schools, and even open new ones, in areas where the numbers aren't there at the moment in terms of financial sustainability?

Moving on, in order to double the use of the Welsh language in everyday life, it is necessary, in my view, to empower people to use the Welsh language that they have, be that in the workplace, online or in their communities. New technologies are developing apace, changing how people work and socialise. So, in order for the Welsh language to remain at the heart of everyday life, we must ensure that new technology works for the benefit of the language. Therefore, can the Minister commit to working alongside the trade unions in order to promote the Twf Charter, which was developed with the unions to promote the Welsh language in the workplace? And what specific measures will the Government introduce to encourage more Welsh-medium apprenticeships? Would the Minister, further, be willing to commit to fund work to develop more new technologies through the medium of Welsh, including developments in artificial intelligence?

On the issue of higher density community sustainability that was mentioned in the statement, may I ask in what direction will your policies go? For example, on housing developments, I've heard many people say that they're having to leave the Welsh-speaking heartlands because they can't afford properties there and, on the other hand, I have read time and again opposition to planning applications saying that, 'Developments of housing in this area will have an impact on the language.' So, in those higher density communities and the policies that you'll put in place, can we expect to see more housing built or less?

Can I also ask what focus you will give to the capital city—the only county to see a growth in the use of the Welsh language in the census, and the county that it was announced last month that now has more Welsh speakers than any other county in Wales? It's not just policies that support the language in schools and beyond schools that have created that scenario, but also supportive policies like building more housing of all kinds, and developing and pushing economic growth, which creates jobs for young people, so that they can remain in Wales, in Cardiff, and bring their families up in Welsh-speaking households. So, is there a commitment, Minister, to learn from the clear success that we have of a county in Wales that has grown the number of Welsh speakers over the past decade and more? I, as leader of Cardiff Council, gave a presentation to Dublin council last year, because they're eager to learn from our successes. Will you?

Finally, Welsh place names are part of our history as communities and as a nation. I welcome the reference to that in your statement. Under the previous Welsh Government, detailed research was done with partners in order to enhance our understanding of changes in place names, and a set of core priorities to protect them was published. Does this Government agree to commit to those priorities?

The Welsh language does belong to us all, and certainly, as a party, we will urge you but also support you in going further. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. I appreciate also the fact that you're willing to support us and push us, because this, as I said in the statement, is clearly a responsibility that we all share, and therefore are willing to work together. It's possible that I won't have noted as carefully as I could have each one of your questions, but I'm going to try and answer and address them.

You mentioned the success of Cardiff, and I'm sure that I, and he, who is originally from Ceredigion, would acknowledge our own contribution to increasing the numbers of Welsh speakers in the capital city. And I was very interested in what he said about having conversations with people in Dublin regarding that success. I would be willing to state now that if there are lessons to be learned from Cardiff, and I see that there are, I would be very willing to do so, and perhaps that's a conversation we could also have.

Then, on the high-density communities, the higher density communities, we have done some work on this already. We have started to plan with local authorities to see how to identify these and then what will follow in terms of policies that would affect—. I think he mentioned housing specifically in those areas, and there are implications also for the economy portfolio and rural resilience, for example. So, we are starting to do that detailed work, and we will be returning to that because, as I said in the statement, each one of those policy areas—. And there's a special relationship in this regard with the local government, housing and planning Minister.

The point that was made with regard to childcare and the childcare offer, providing childcare through the medium of Welsh clearly is a priority—not a priority, it is at the core of how we've developed the idea of childcare. We've already been talking with Mudiad Meithrin about that. I think perhaps that illustrates once more that we don't consider the Welsh language as a policy area outside of everything else, but embedded in everything.

He is right to draw attention to the challenges that we have in terms of developing the workforce. There is a plan in place to facilitate that, but there will be a need for detailed work and detailed promotion to reach that aim. He also mentioned about doubling the use of the language, and he's right to think that we've gone into the habit of talking about the 1 million Welsh speakers, but not that second phrase of doubling the use. I think, particularly in the context of the commission with regards to communities where there's lower density of Welsh spoken, there are many important things that we'll be working on to ensure that we move on that.

Technology: I have a number of meetings coming up. I think the Welsh language is at the forefront in terms of being in discussion with technology companies. It is an area that is completely new to me in terms of detailed discussions with them, but it is going to be following on from the willingness that perhaps people wouldn't have expected in terms of these companies to work with us in terms of providing services through the medium of Welsh.

In terms of speaking with unions, we would always be willing to speak to the unions and get their views and their expertise on how to act in terms of what is obviously an aspiration of this Chamber.

In terms of planning education and schools over a period of time with demographic challenges, there's a lot to discuss in that regard. Obviously, we're looking currently at reviewing the Welsh in education strategic plans that will look at the growth in numbers. But there will be conversations regarding in which direction the numbers of pupils are going. That will also be central to that.

I hope that I have covered most of the issues he raised, but I'm very happy to have a further conversation with him if I have missed something. Thank you very much.

May I thank the Minister for her statement this afternoon? I share the Welsh Government's ambition and target of reaching 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050. My own party's manifesto had a commitment to maintain that target, and we will continue to support efforts to increase the number of Welsh speakers and to increase the amount of Welsh spoken in our communities.

Today's statement does highlight three key priorities for the Government: learning, communities and infrastructure. Now, enhancing opportunities to access Welsh-medium education must be a priority for this Government, because only 21 per cent of children are currently taught in Welsh-medium schools, according to the latest school census. I think that work could be done in terms of learner travel that could help to remove barriers to learning the Welsh language. So, perhaps the Cabinet Minister could tell us whether she will review the Learner Travel (Wales) Measure 2008 in order to see if there is more that can be done to enable children to go to Welsh-medium schools.

The statement confirms that the Welsh Government is working with the early years sector to enhance provision across Wales, and I would be grateful if she could tell us more about that. Good work has been done to support education practitioners on their journey, for example, Cwlwm has provided resources and is implementing the Welsh Promise scheme, where it's worked with over 170 childcare settings in order to assess how they use the Welsh language, and in order to develop an action plan to improve their provision. Perhaps the Minister could tell us how the Government is supporting these organisations to do this outreach work with practitioners in future, and how this can be enhanced in the future.

The statement today also refers to the second phase report from the Commission for Welsh-speaking Communities, and as the Cabinet Minister knows, I have been tabling questions on this issue in order to try and understand how the Welsh Government is proceeding on the recommendations made by the commission. The report makes it clear that the current budget for regenerating the use of the Welsh language on a community level is based on historic precedent, and that it does not reach the long-term policy goal of creating a bilingual Wales. So, will the Welsh Government make a significant investment in this area in its autumn budget in order to meet this need, and, if so, what will this look like?

Chapter 4 of that report talks about the idea of socialising through the medium of Welsh, outside of school settings, in cultural settings, and we have seen evidence of good practice such as Tafwyl recently in Cardiff. These events and many other community outreach events are held by organisations like the mentrau iaith and others, of course, that do so much in our communities with little resource. So, I very much hope that the Welsh Government is considering how it can support community organisations more effectively in the future.

Today's statement refers to infrastructure, and I'm pleased to hear that the Minister is working with the big tech companies in order to enhance support for Welsh language users. We live in a digital age and it's important that Wales is in the vanguard in terms of any technological development. I heard the earlier responses, so could the Minister perhaps provide more detail on the work that she is doing on AI, and how she is ensuring that technology will be appropriate for the Welsh language?

Of course, today's statement refers to the work of the Welsh Language Commissioner who has outlined her priorities, and one of those is to create workplaces that support the Welsh language. I think there should be a clear strategy for the Welsh language in the workplace, in order for us to assess progress in this area and promote improvements. My party's manifesto committed to developing a network of Welsh language business champions, so perhaps the Minister would consider a specific strategy for the Welsh language in the workplace, and perhaps even adopt our ideas of business champions.

And finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm pleased that the National Eisteddfod will be held in my constituency, so I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all Members to visit in the summer. Today's statement makes reference to the Welsh language in the culture strategy, and so perhaps the Minister could tell us about the strategy and the role that events such as the Eisteddfod can play in increasing the use of the Welsh language within our communities.

Dirprwy Lywydd, as has already been said, the Welsh language belongs to each and every one of us. I'd like to see it prosper and grow, and I look forward to working constructively with the Cabinet Minister on that agenda. Thanks.

Thank you very much. If I could take the questions back to front, because I don't want to miss the opportunity to encourage everybody to attend the National Eisteddfod, Eisteddfod y Garreg Las. I went to Cardigan recently—the Cabinet Minister for Finance was there too—to one of the 850-year celebrations since the first Eisteddfod, and I must admit that it was the most splendid and bonkers thing that I'd seen for a very long time, and we really enjoyed the experience. Creativity was exhibited in every area that you could imagine—there was singing, there was recitation, there was poetry, there was puppetry, and there were very theatrical elements to it.

And I have been wanting for a very long time to make a request, if possible, to state that Eddie Ladd is a national treasure now; perhaps this is the opportunity to do so, because she was also excellent. Also, I think perhaps this illustrates something more serious, it illustrates how important the Welsh language is to us because, of course, she is a very successful international performer, but she says that the audience from the wall of Cardigan castle is the most important one for her to date.

I was interested in what you said regarding the Welsh language in the workplace and this idea of business champions. We do have a scheme already on bilingual leadership, and it's possible that there's some conversation we could have to combine both ideas. I'd be very happy to have that conversation.

I have been in post for only a couple of months, so I'm only just starting the work at the moment, particularly on the technology elements and artificial intelligence. But I am very enthusiastic about those conversations. When I have more to share, I'd be very happy to do so.

In terms of socialising through the medium of Welsh, that takes me back to the point that I was making that we need to create the environment where people don't have to look for opportunities to use the Welsh language. As you mentioned, the opportunities provided through the mentrau iaith are key to ensure that those opportunities are available.

On the second phase of the commission, we are going through those recommendations now. I have committed to respond fully by the end of the year at the latest. The response to that will also mean looking at the implications of implementing that in terms of resources of all kinds.

On developing the workforce, I was pleased that you referred to Cwlwm, which is making an important contribution. I think it also reminds us all that the athrofa is going to be up and running from 2027, with a specific role in terms of learning Welsh. I saw them in Tafwyl, as it happens, and they are very excited about the numbers that are now coming through.

So, thank you very much for those questions. It’s clear that there are further conversations and further support that we can work on.

Thank you for today's heartening statement. It's great to hear about the work that's ongoing. Thank you, Cabinet Minister. I'm pleased to see Plaid Cymru's commitment to extending the Welsh language standards regime to include UK Government bodies and services that operate in Wales, including private companies operating in the fields of communications, utilities, banking, car parking and supermarkets. It's essential that we and constituents can have and use these services through the medium of English and Welsh. Could the Cabinet Minister provide an update on actions taken to bring a range of bodies into the standards regime?

Thank you very much. Clearly, strengthening the rights of Welsh speakers and ensuring that there are more opportunities for people to use the Welsh language is important to us all, and these standards are part of that. We are working at extending the standards to other sectors and bodies, and we are currently looking at the work programme in relation to that.

We've started to consider what steps will need to be taken in order to extend standards to those sectors that are included in our 100-day plan, and then that will be an initial part of the work. Some of those sectors are already mentioned in the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011, but we will need to look at adding other sectors before we can draw up standards for them. It seems that we need Secretary of State consent before making standards for Ministers of the Crown, so we will need to work on that, too.

I'm also enthusiastic, following my conversation with the Welsh Language Commissioner, that we should look at the services that individuals access. There is a range of them, and at the moment these standards aren't always consistent, so people don't always know what their rights are in different areas. I do think that that is something that we need to address as a matter of urgency.

Diolch, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement here today. I agree with the spirit of it. However, I am disappointed to see only a fleeting reference to post-16 education. Given that you have scrapped the all-encompassing review of participation and sustainability of the whole tertiary sector, which I had begun during my time as Minister for Further and Higher Education, in favour of a narrow focus on universities alone, what assurances can you give that the evidence collected from my call for evidence, including a substantive body of evidence from the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, will be used in order to effectively plan for increased delivery through the medium of Welsh in school sixth forms, further education colleges, universities and adult learning settings?

Diolch yn fawr. I can assure her that access, because this is a particularly key demographic post 16, and their access to educational opportunity through the medium of Welsh, but also the opportunities to use their Welsh—. I'd be very interested in looking at the work that she has done previously around learner travel. I'm already having discussions and prioritising this area with my colleague the Deputy Minister for Transport. I know that the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education is focusing very clearly on this too. So while it may have been fleeting in my statement, it isn't fleeting in the programme of work that we have before us.

I really welcome that statement from the Cabinet Minister—it's fantastic. I just want to correct Huw Thomas there. Cardiff isn't the only place that saw an increase in the Welsh language, but also the Vale of Glamorgan, Rhondda Cynon Taf and Merthyr Tydfil. There are a number of us who have seen that increase. It was so heartening to see so many of us across the parties in favour of what's happening with the Welsh language and the fact that a strategy is going to be implemented across our nation; it's fantastic.

I just wanted to say that the Commission for Welsh-speaking Communities report states that the Welsh language belongs to each one of us. Whether we speak it or not, it's important for all of us to embrace the Welsh language. Also, it recommends strengthening community language planning and that the Government works with local partners such as the mentrau iaith—

Cabinet Minister, what plans does the Welsh Government have to promote the language in areas of lower linguistic density?

Thank you very much for that question. I knew that the Member would take a great interest in the history of Merthyr and the linguistic context there. I did some research and I found that Merthyr in the nineteenth century was alive with Welsh language culture. So, I congratulate her and the people of Merthyr more broadly for the work that they have done to restore that cultural vibrancy in recent years.

In terms of the work, she will be particularly interested, I'm sure, in our response to the second commission on areas of lower and medium-density Welsh speakers, and the conversation I'll have tomorrow with the authors of those commissions' reports. There are elements, as I mentioned, where we want to focus specifically, and those include education and early years, technology, workplaces, sport and culture, and local leadership too. But I do think that we would also want to work closely with the mentrau iaith at a local level—someone else mentioned those; there are different models across Wales—and then an overarching organisation bringing together all of that expertise. So, in responding to the commission and putting plans in place, we would be very enthusiastic about drawing on her expertise and the mentrau iaith more broadly to facilitate that.

Good afternoon, Minister. I want to wave the flag for Powys, please. We've seen in Powys a real increase and a welcome increase in Welsh-medium education over the years. Families also in rural areas in Powys have felt that access to Welsh-medium education is being restricted by geography rather than by demand. That is starting to change, I'm pleased to say. Two all-age schools are moving towards being completely Welsh-medium. A new Welsh-medium all-age school is being planned in the middle of the county, and a proposal to expand provision in a primary school near Brecon is about to be put before the cabinet. We appreciate the support of the Government, of course, but more funding is required for that council. So, what can you tell us about the funding and the support available to places such as Powys to ensure that the Welsh language is maintained more through our schools? Thank you.

Thank you very much. I always welcome the opportunity to talk about Powys. I used the pull the leg of the Member's predecessor by saying that Powys was a continent and not a constituency. It certainly felt that way when driving from the bottom to the top of the county. I'm very pleased to hear about the progress that's being made in Powys in relation to schools, particularly the through schools. I do think that this is an interesting development in this context.

What I can tell her at the moment is that, in looking at the recommendations of the commission, we will be looking in detail at their impact on communities and developing the Welsh language in all parts of Wales. That's the point and that's the intention. Then, we will look at the implications of that in relation to resources, so that we can deliver in Powys and elsewhere.

Thank you. I am learning Welsh since primary school, but I left school not being able to speak Welsh at all. I'm sad to say that I'm in the majority.

Research from Cymdeithas yr Iaith suggests around 80 per cent of children leave school in Wales not confident in speaking Welsh.

The education system failed me, and the education system in Wales is still failing our children.

Firstly, could the Minister please outline how she intends to improve Welsh language education for second-language learners in English-medium schools?

Why not teach Welsh properly in every school? Why is my partner fluent and I'm not? We're the same age. We went to school in the same country. Why didn't we get the same language opportunities? It's the language of the nation I live in. So, I've spent hundreds of hours and hundreds of pounds and a great deal of effort to learn my own language. I'm fortunate to have the time, the money and a job that lets me learn. Too many people don't have that opportunity.

Secondly, could the Minister please outline what support she wants to see for adult learners like myself, who weren't given the gift of Cymraeg in our schools and never got that choice to use the language in the first place?

Thank you very much. I can hear the frustration and the fluency in the question there. In terms of learning Welsh in our schools, we are looking closely and carefully at increasing the number of pupils who have access to Welsh-medium education, and that target of 50 per cent in year one by 2050. But also, we are strengthening the Welsh language throughout our schools, which will address some of the frustration that the Member mentioned there.

Also, it is important to focus on the support available to adult learners. We are working with the centre, which will become the athrofa next year, to ensure that as many people as possible have access to Welsh lessons that are free, which is the point that the Member was making there.

The programme of work offers very flexible and varied training. It's important to remember that a number of us know of people who take advantage of opportunities in workplaces across Wales to learn Welsh. There's more work to be done, but I think—or I hope, anyway—that we are illustrating the importance of doing this work and our aspiration and desire to move swiftly on this.

Dirprwy Lywydd, our vision is clear. We want a railway that is designed in Wales, that is delivered in Wales and that is accountable to the people of Wales. The journey will not happen overnight, but we now have a pathway and the determination to see it through. When our transport network succeeds, Wales works better. Diolch.

Thank you for your statement. Minister, we in Reform, it is worth saying at the outset, respect the ownership of the Valleys lines from this Welsh Government. It is worth saying that power over rail must not be devolved further. Rail infrastructure isn't just about operating trains, it's maintaining tracks, replacing signalling, responding to flooding, emergency failures and so much more. These are responsibilities that require highly specialist engineers, experienced asset managers, robust governance and long-term financial planning, things that this Plaid Government is not renowned for.

Now, Minister, at present, only the core Valleys lines are devolved. Large sections of rail infrastructure are still managed by Network Rail. So, given that you've only managed and owned a small part of the rail section in Wales, what evidence can you provide that the Welsh Government has the people, the expertise, the management capability and the financial resilience to take on responsibility for the entire network?

Now, I admire the work that Transport for Wales is doing, but when the state-of-the-art tram trains don't even have toilets—a pressing issue that was raised with me only this morning by Age Cymru—I think we really have to focus on getting the basics right. And let's not forget Plaid's terrible record on transport as a whole: for 27 years, we've seen how Labour and Plaid have engaged in a hostile war on motorists without delivering the reliable transport network Wales was promised over and over at every election.

Now, Welsh roads are plagued by potholes. Plaid have actively wanted to scrap the M4 relief road, and now we've no idea what their policy is on the M4 relief road, as motorists continue to suffer with blanket 20 mph limits, which are still not supported today.

Now, we're expected to believe that this same Labour-Plaid agenda can successfully take on responsibility for the entire rail network, and that Westminster owes them money, consistently whingeing about perceived unfairness rather than getting on with the job. Now, Minister, in 2013, the UK Government offered Wales the financial borrowing powers needed to build the M4 relief road, and guess what? Plaid Cymru opposed it, and millions of taxpayers' money was wasted on an ideological drive to force people onto public transport. Instead of trying to devolve rail and persistently begging for more powers from Westminster, Plaid should be focused on the projects we currently have at hand to improve our transport network: build the third Menai crossing; upgrade the A55 expressway; scrap 20 mph blanket limits; and build the M4 relief road.

Minister, the Welsh public don't want rail devolution. They want trains to run on time. They want a road network that makes it easy and quick to get from A to B. But for Plaid, these projects take a back seat time and time again, because for them, constitutional power comes first. More power, more power, more power. Welsh people come second every single time. So, do you agree with me, Minister, that completing these projects should be a clear priority over more rail devolution, and for Plaid to come clean with the people of Wales, or are you now stuck in what's known as the Cardiff Bay bubble?

On HS2 funding, Plaid have called for consequentials time and time again, but reliance on this is not a credible strategy. Now, we in Reform believe that Wales deserves fairer funding, of course we do, but we do not trust that this Government will be able to deliver it, which is why we will oppose any call for greater devolution of rail.

Now, let's remind ourselves: in the first-ever supplementary budget, £340 million was given to Wales for children with ALN, but not a single penny has reached schools. Absolutely shameful. Now, Minister, that funding was meant for some of the most vulnerable children in Wales, but instead it has been diverted to fulfilling uncosted election promises. Reform knows it, this Senedd knows it and the people of Wales know it. Minister, there are 40,000 children with ALN across Wales crying out for help. This money is theirs. It is not there to fulfil uncosted promises. So, if this Government cannot be trusted to deliver funding that is specifically for children in this case, if this Government prioritises constitutional change and uncosted promises over our most vulnerable, how can we trust you to take on responsibility for a devolved rail network—a system that would require long-term capital planning, subsidy decisions and billions in public spending? So, I ask you: given pressures already on the Welsh budget, what safeguards will be in place to ensure that any additional funding received is protected from Plaid's uncosted policy raids and to plug inevitable funding gaps? Diolch.

Thank you for the question, I think, Jason. We enjoyed our first conversation when we met to talk about these issues, and I hope to have more of those constructive conversations into the future, and perhaps we spend our time talking about transport, which is the job I'm paid to do, which I think would be easier for me to do.

You referenced whingeing. I'll tell you what I'm not doing. I'm not whingeing. I'm preparing to get on with the job to make Wales's transport system work, and rail is a key part of it. Now, when you speak to people about the proof of the pudding, the core Valleys lines and what's happened on the metro is a perfect example of what can happen when we get our act together and start working on it. And if you travel on it, you'll see the benefits of it, and you hear people every day saying how important it is that they can turn up to a station and get on a train that's comfortable and works and does the job it needs to do. We need to make that happen for the whole of Wales. Connectivity in some parts of Wales is really poor. Part of our responsibility is to make sure that changes. We cannot do that when people in Westminster are making the decisions and we have no say in it. We need to be the people making those decisions, and we have the proof that we can do it.

The key thing that matters for making things happen is making sure there's a supply chain. One of the things that I'm acutely aware of is that we've got people who've delivered the core Valleys lines, who've delivered the metro, and they're raring and willing to go on the next stage of our next project when it comes to Wales. We've got the plans for the Burns stations. We need to get them going. I had a constructive conversation with the UK Government. We're going to pursue that in the same way as I think we agreed we'd have constructive conversations as well, as I did with others around this Siambr. But one of the things we shouldn't do is start suggesting that this is whingeing. This is about getting on with it. This is what we're doing. This is what I'm keen to do, and I won't be whingeing at all.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement today. At its core, transport is about connecting people with jobs, with opportunities and with communities. That's why I'm so proud of how the previous Welsh Labour Government invested £800 million in new trains across Wales, launched network north Wales as a long-term programme of rail improvements in north Wales, and created the £1.1 billion south Wales metro, including electrifying 170 km of Victorian railway.

In the constituency I represent and live in, I've seen first-hand myself and from fellow commuters how the investment in the core Valleys lines and the south Wales metro has transformed people's daily lives. And of course, that's why I'm also proud that the previous Welsh Labour Government, with my colleague Ken Skates as transport Secretary, secured that generational £14 billion commitment of rail investment in Wales from the UK Labour Government, ending more than a decade of Tory neglect.

In your statement, Minister, you referred to Transport for Wales's vision and intent for rail in Wales, 'Today, Tomorrow, Together'. This is, of course, a long-term commitment for Wales and the borders rail, to deliver a pipeline of new stations, upgraded rail lines and improved train services. And it embraces both the non-devolved and the Welsh Government-owned networks. And you've touched today, Minister, on your discussions with the UK Government. That £14 billion commitment is a huge win for Wales, and making it a reality will rely on the two Governments working closely together, along with a range of crucial partners. So, do you, Minister, stand steadfastly behind the vision for 'Today, Tomorrow, Together'? And since coming into Government, what progress have you made towards working collaboratively and in partnership with the UK Government to deliver it? What progress has been made over recent weeks in progressing the Burns stations, the Deeside parkway experiment and the Padeswood rail enhancement project? And secondly, when we talk about devolution in this Siambr, the focus is often on devolving more from Westminster to Cardiff Bay. But devolution doesn't just end in Cardiff Bay. I'm just as interested in how we move power closer to people, right across Wales, to the regions, the councils, and communities who know what they need best. That's why, in Government, we modernised local transport grants, moving from councils having to bid to numerous funds for small local schemes to regional corporate joint committees receiving that single pot of funding from which they will develop a forward programme.

Devolution is about power closer to home. Devolving decision making about rail and transport should be about putting decisions back into people's hands, more efficiency and more responsiveness to local priorities. So, can you, Minister, set out today what specific decision-making powers you plan to devolve from Welsh Government to the regions of Wales, and by when?

Diolch, Vikki. Thank you for the question. So, I'm not going to stand up here—and I think we made it clear when we met—to be churlish about the work that's going on, and I feel we're building on the good work that's happened so far with the core Valleys lines, with the metro. I think this is good work, but we need to push it further, and I think that what we're setting out here is an acceleration of that move to take things on. And this is why devolution becomes so important, because, ultimately, this is about us making sure that the decisions are made in the right place to effect the right things.

We don't think—and I think it's been broadly accepted previously in the Siambr—that Westminster's the right place to decide our rail infrastructure spending. The proof of the pudding is in a figure that I spoke about earlier: we've got 10 per cent of the rail network, yet only 1 per cent of the enhancements has been spent in Wales. So, we've been historically underfunded. Now, the £445 million that's in this spending review is a step in the right direction. It's insufficient to deliver the Burns stations in the way they need to be delivered. So, we're having a constructive conversation. And you asked about the specifics. I was really pleased with the positivity that came from my conversation with UK Government—pleasantly pleased with how it went. We've committed, the rail Minister and I, to also go into the next Wales rail board, where we can continue that engagement where the teams around us can see we're still on the same page.

You asked whether I stood steadfast behind Transport for Wales's vision, and I do. This is something that makes a clear difference to Wales. But the problem is it needs to be funded properly, and that's the critical thing. So, when we're talking about the £14 billion, which has been repeated, we need to see that laid out in the next spending review, so that we can get on and do the work. What I've found with Transport for Wales is that they're ready to get on and do it, so I want to give them the resources, through the Cabinet Minister for Finance, to help that become a reality. Because the people of Wales are fed up with people kicking the can down the road. I'm not going to do that. What I want to make sure is that we get some movement on it.

I welcome the question on devolution. I'm a big fan of devolution. I think that devolution is appropriate when it's at the right level. So, the key thing about devolution is making sure you make the right decisions at the right level. Rail, that's at a Wales level, and I'm clear about that. That's where we should be focused.

When it comes to other priorities, I think we're in the right place. I think we're in the place where the CJCs make those decisions through the regional transport funds. But I think where we've got to do some more work is making sure that the citizen understands how they can influence that process. So, today, I think constituents know how to contact me in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg. They would have known how to contact me as a local councillor. I'm not sure that citizens know how to engage with the CJCs in the same way. So, I think, when it comes to devolution, you need to make sure there's that link to make sure that works as well. But, generally, thank you for your questions. I think they're all constructive, and I appreciate that level of challenge and scrutiny. Diolch.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. Now, I'd like to pay tribute to a former Cabinet Secretary for transport, Ken Skates. Whilst we might not have always agreed, I know from my conversations and engagement with Ken that he, like me, wanted to improve rail services for our constituents, and always worked with that goal in mind.

On a positive note for rail in Wales, it would be churlish not to acknowledge that there has been some improvement in recent years with aspects of rail services, namely the roll-out of the Transport for London-style tap-on system in south Wales, which has been a good initiative and has reduced the cost of travel compared with purchasing regular tickets. It's good to see this being rolled out across north Wales now as well. The electrification of the core Valleys lines has likewise brought much-needed improvement to railways that had long been viewed as forgotten by many, but we must remember Wales is not just Cardiff.

Turning now to areas that still need to be addressed, I will begin with rail resilience. Now, we've seen lately—and we'll probably see again—hot weather. Ageing rolling stock and weaknesses within the network mean our rail remains far too fragile, and we need to put that resilience back in. The Marches line is, perhaps, the most susceptible to disruption. A delay in the south impacts the north, and, owing to the structure of the network, can quickly affect services across the whole of Wales. So, I welcome the Minister today acknowledging the need to increase capacity and resilience on this route. Passengers, however, have heard these commitments before and will rightly want to see action rather than warm words. Can the Minister therefore outline what specific interventions are being considered, and when we can expect to see tangible improvement delivered there?

I think the proposed Magor and Undy station shows what can be achieved when local campaigning is backed by proper investment and co-operation. But we must acknowledge it was the support of the previous UK Conservative Government and the former Secretary of State for Wales that helped get this project off the drawing board and into development. The previous UK Conservative Government also delivered significant rail investment into Wales, including electrification of the Great Western main line to Cardiff, new intercity express trains and significant funds towards the core Valleys lines. I was part of the delivery of the Cardiff capital region city deal, which was focused around bringing forward the metro. That was, again, delivered because the UK Government enabled that to happen.

Now, the real issue is not a lack of powers but a lack of fair funding. Wales has too often missed out on rail investment and should receive its fair share of rail spending, including full consequentials from projects in England. What Wales needs is more money for rail, not more powers over rail. Minister, much of your statement rests on the argument that further powers will unlock better outcomes, but passengers will rightly judge on what they experience on the ground. You referred to Transport for Wales's £14 billion rail vision and accelerating delivery of the Burns station programme. Can you clarify exactly which projects are being funded and what timescales have been agreed?

Minister, you also cite the core Valley lines transformation as evidence for further devolution, but, before seeking additional powers, should the Welsh Government not first demonstrate that projects already under its control are being delivered on time, on budget and producing measurable improvements for passengers across Wales? The test should not be how many powers politicians can accumulate, but whether passengers see better outcomes. Minister, is the real challenge facing Welsh railways really a lack of powers, or is it a lack of investment and delivery? Would it not be better to focus on securing fairer funding and demonstrating that existing devolved responsibilities can deliver better services for passengers, before calls for more devolution?

Thank you, Peter, and, again, thank you for the constructive way you've framed the questions, albeit there's a few things that I think we take slightly different views on. But if we start at your last point first, 'Is power the important thing or is making people's lives better the more important thing?' Do you know, if I could see a way of being able to deliver things without power then I'd investigate that first? My first two points in my statement reference working with UK Government more constructively with the current powers that we've got. So, I want to be clear, when I'm dealing with UK Government, that I'm going to be somebody who always works constructively, is always honest and tries to get the best out of that relationship. That includes where we're connected across the country, and making sure that those things work. So, I'm not somebody who's just, there, power for power's sake.

However, it is increasingly clear, if you just look—. You referenced the electrification figure. Only 9 per cent of our rail network is electrified; 45 per cent of the English network is electrified. The only reason, really, that 9 per cent is electrified isn't necessarily about GWR; it's more about what the Welsh Government did with regard to the core Valleys lines. So, let's make sure we get these things right before we move on.

I'm glad you brought up the issue of resilience. I think we need to look at this in the frame of where things are happening. So, just as a backward look, when we had the red weather warning 10 days ago, 94 per cent of Transport for Wales services ran appropriately. Now, if you compare that to Paris, Paris lost 10 per cent of its network in the same period. Germany lost every single train that doesn’t have air conditioning in it, which was a huge number of trains, and Belgium similarly. So, we’ve got to be careful that we don’t characterise our transport network incorrectly. That doesn’t mean that we don’t need to do a lot of work on making sure we’re resilient and ready for these things. We’re about to hit another heatwave now, so these things aren’t going away. This will be three heatwaves this year so far. So, I think this is a really important point, and I expect to come back to this Siambr in short order to be able to talk about how we build a more resilient network. Part of it is about making sure the trains we put on the network, the buses we put on our roads, are appropriate to deliver the services. So, I was on a bus the other day, fully air-conditioned, it makes it a comfortable journey, the trains are similarly so, and that makes a real difference to things as well.

We enjoyed our walk to school, I think, in Magor the other day, and it was good to see how committed the team were there to their project. The reflection I have from it is how long it's taken them to get to a point where progress happens, even in developing their community centre. And I think one of the things I'm keen to do is to make sure that we collectively can agree on lots of things. The more we can agree on, the more commitment people can start, and the funds can start to flow so that we know, even in four years' time, if the make-up of the Siambr changed in any way, we all know that we're committed to doing the things we are. And things like the Burns stations fit that profile. So, I welcome the broad support, I think, from you in this regard, and I think we'll continue to work together.

The difference between rail in Caerphilly and Blaenau Gwent shows exactly why devolving rail matters. Caerphilly has 17 stations, most on the Welsh Government's core Valleys lines. Since those lines came under Welsh Government control, passengers have seen new trains, electrification and more frequent services. But, in Blaenau Gwent, the Ebbw Vale line is still reserved, and we have just three stations in the whole of Blaenau Gwent, with communities like Abertillery and Tredegar completely cut off from the rail network.

That gap didn't happen by accident. It reflects where responsibility sits, and the fact that Wales is too often not a priority for Westminster. Where rail is devolved, like in Caerphilly, we see investment and improvement. Where it isn't, like in Blaenau Gwent, communities are left behind. So, Deputy Minister, what discussions are being held with the UK Government about extending the core Valleys lines to other parts of the Valleys, including Blaenau Gwent?

Thank you for the question, Niamh.

I think this is huge. You've just exemplified the reason why we need devolved powers, because we need to treat communities the same, and they need to be given the same opportunities whether they're in the Caerphilly part of your constituency or the Blaenau Gwent part of your constituency. But this requires long-term planning. Again, I'm going back to the point of us needing, I think, to get some collective consensus around how we go and do this. But, ultimately, I see no way of this happening without full devolution, to be able to make the decisions that matter, because we're closer to the people of Wales and their needs than they are in Westminster. That's the critical thing. We are having conversations. The conversations have started with UK Ministers. They know what we want, and it doesn't really matter who is in charge there, frankly. Our position hasn't changed, but we're doing it from a position of making sure we can make a real difference.

Deputy Minister, I honestly hate to say this, because it might damage your reputation with your party, but you've always struck me, in my short time here, as being one of the more sensible Ministers on the Government benches. But then you went and spoiled it all by saying you are a fan of more devolution. Now, people in this Chamber will know that I'm not a fan of more devolution, and neither is my party. But you have made a serious point about underinvestment in Welsh rail. Many people in north Wales, where my constituency lies, will totally agree with you. But Reform Wales does not believe every issue is solved by devolving more power to Cardiff Bay. To build a skyscraper on weak foundations is total folly.

So, the test is simple: will passengers get better services from your plans? And what does network north Wales actually mean for north Wales? We have been promised for years that we’d have electrification of the north Wales main line. I want to know what would happen to the lines going from Wrexham to Chester, Wrexham to Bidston, into Liverpool and Manchester Airport. These are crucial lines for us in north Wales.

Sure. What is the cost of devolution and, basically, what will be the benefits and what is the timetable? Thank you.

Thank you for the questions, Adrian. I was worried then you might be hitting Mike Hedges's number of questions in one question. I'll do my best. I'm not sure 'sensible but' carries much weight, but thank you, I think—but I'm not sure.

Our test is the same. Our test is: can we improve the passenger journey? Can we make things work quicker? Can we make things work more seamlessly? I think that's the ultimate test. Today, in some parts of Wales, we've shown that that's happening. In lots of Wales—and I think you've highlighted areas where it's not—it isn't. So, the job of Government is to get in there, roll up our sleeves and start work on those things with the same vigour as has happened down south. I'm chairing the next network north rail board, to show the commitment to the north of the country as has been shown down the south. And I'm keen and I'm happy to update you with that post that meeting as well. Devolution and powers have got to have a reason for them. I'm clear about that. I think I've made the case in this statement today, and I'll continue to make that case. The only way we'll make our railways better is if the powers are in this place.

Good afternoon, Deputy Minister. Thank you for the statement. I do welcome your ambition, unlike Reform UK. I am totally perplexed by your statement that you feel that Wales does not have the skills to have rail devolved to Wales. You're always doing Wales down.

But I do want to say that where we are now in terms of having rail devolved to Wales, we've been here for a number of years through the Welsh Government. I can see that, over the years, we've not seen any change whatsoever. In fact, just this year, David Chadwick MP tabled an amendment to the Railways Bill, which would have transferred responsibility for infrastructure, investment and long-term strategy to the Senedd within two years. Unfortunately, not a single Welsh Labour MP supported it. And so I do hope that when this comes back before the Labour Government, which it probably still will be, that there is persuasion given from the Senedd to Labour MPs in Westminster. I'd like to ask you specifically: Scotland have done this, so how are you learning from Scotland? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thanks for the question, Jane. I agree with you, firstly, that we have the skills and the capacity to start doing the work. We've proven it. The teams are ready to go. A lot of these are Wales-based organisations and Wales-based workers. This is a good project to start. They need to get on there and help to develop the railways.

I think the key point that you're making is the same point that I think I made in the—. The Scottish example is there to be able to work with. The key difference is that 33 per cent of their network is electrified, 9 per cent of ours—good indication. It's a different—. We've got more cross-border connectivity in Wales as well in terms of some of our services.

I'm really proud, and I think our key exemplar that I like to use is basically the work that we've done on the core Valleys lines. I know I'm repeating myself, but you're starting to see some huge improvements and we can replicate some of that work elsewhere. It doesn't mean that it's all about rail. We talked about buses here last week. I think that we've got to make sure that our transport network is wholly integrated, so people feel comfortable and they see it as a seamless journey, being on, maybe, the north Wales coach, jumping on a bus and jumping on a train. These are seen as seamless, which is the reason for one ticket, one journey. We've got a lot of work that we've seen and a lot of benefit.

Deputy Minister, the recent heatwave highlighted the significant costs related to the maintenance of rail infrastructure in the face of extreme weather. Before seeking to devolve further responsibility over the railways, has the Welsh Government calculated the long-term financial implications of maintaining and renewing the infrastructure that it would inherit? If so, would the Deputy Minister publish those figures and explain how the costs will be met? Thank you.

Thanks, Helen. Thanks for the question.

I think this is a really important point and it's a point that I'm happy to come back to the Siambr with. I have asked the same question. I think that when we talk about £14 billion, that's not the maintenance budget as well. That's really critical. So, we need to make sure that we have full devolution, so that we can do the work that needs to happen.

Going back to the point that Peter referenced, and the fact that we need to build resilience, this is the core of building that resilience. We have got a network that, in some parts, we know hasn't had the support that it has needed for a number of years. So, it's really important, but when I have got the figure, I will come back to you on it.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. I welcome this statement today. In Cardiff, the consequences of decades of underinvestment in rail infrastructure are all too evident. That is why I welcome the progress made since the devolution of the core Valleys lines, which has enabled significant improvements to be delivered across the network.

For too long, disabled people in my constituency have faced unacceptable barriers when using our rail network. The lack of lifts and step-free access has forced passengers to take lengthy detours, while alternative routes remain inaccessible for many wheelchair users. I am pleased that work has finally begun on an accessible footbridge at Cathays station. However, campaigners have been calling for these improvements since the 1990s. Surely, this is proof that, when Wales has greater control of its rail network, we can better address the needs of our communities.

For years, Plaid Cymru has argued that rail infrastructure and its corresponding funding is fully devolved to Wales, and permit projects like HS2 to be reclassified as an England-only project. If that were to happen, Wales could receive billions of pounds in consequential funding—money that could transform rail connectivity and accessibility across our country. Given that Welsh taxpayers are helping to fund a project that does not enter Wales, and given ongoing concerns that the economic benefit will be felt elsewhere, what pressure is the Deputy Minister putting on the UK Government to secure the fair funding settlement that Wales deserves?

Diolch, Leti. I know you take a keen interest in rail from your job prior to this, where you were supporting Transport for Wales in its work as well. So, I'm grateful for your expertise as well. How do I answer that question? Just by turning it back and saying that we need the devolution and we need fair funding.

Now, the pressure, I think, is twofold. So, the conversation needs to be a conversation with UK Government, where we are seen as a trusted partner. So, I want to make sure that, every time I have a conversation, they know that I'm being clear, I'm being direct, and I'm being honest with our needs and why we're working on it.

But the other thing, I think, that was really—. When I spoke to the rail Minister a few weeks ago, he said that, to help him to go to the Treasury to get the funding that we need, what we needed is to be ready with the projects. So, that's the key difference. We are ready with the projects, to start to deliver, particularly on the Burns stations, because of the work that's been done. We're ready to go, and we can start kicking on with this. That's the critical difference. And I think that shows that, from rail, we're moving forward with things like never before. Diolch yn fawr.

I will champion policies aimed at strengthening the value that we give to our carers. For our paid workforce, we will work to ensure that far more workers receive the real living wage as a minimum, and progress work towards fairer pay and conditions, but they should also receive parity of esteem. Why is it that social care receives less prominence in debate than the NHS? Why shouldn’t care workers hold the same space in our psyche as nurses and doctors? I’m put in mind of Michael Rosen’s words about the NHS that

'these are the hands that touch us first'.

For many people in care homes, in palliative care, workers there will be the hands that touch us last. This is what I want to champion in Government: those who help the least heard and the lost. The carers and workers who support people at their most vulnerable, who bring comfort to the dying and support to the sick. The value we place on this vital work has to be greater, and I will drive for that to happen as just one pillar of the foundations for a truly national care service in Wales.

Unpaid carers, of course, support hundreds of thousands of people. I have listened to concerns about recognition, support and financial pressures, and to the plea for policies, not praise. We are investing in the carers support fund and short breaks scheme and will continue to press the UK Government for changes to carers allowance and local authorities on respite provision.

Llywydd, providing the best start in life for all children is fundamental, and this includes reinforcing and redoubling our societal responsibilities to care for those in vulnerable and disadvantaged situations. The programme to remove profit from the care of looked-after children in Wales was a major feature of our co-operation agreement, and we will bring this world-leading initiative to fruition within the current Senedd term. We are also expanding the corporate parenting charter into the private sector as part of our 2030 vision for this significant area of work.

Caring for our children and young people also means ensuring that support mechanisms are there to respond to abuse, neglect and exploitation. We are all aware of the shameful legacy of institutional failings in this area, and we are committed to righting these historic wrongs. This Government is engaging closely with the ongoing UK inquiry into group-based childhood exploitation to ensure that the unique Welsh context is properly captured, whilst also strengthening the frameworks for which this Government is directly responsible.

We are working at pace to implement both the strengthening safeguarding governance review and our own manifesto commitments, so that safeguarding reform can be brought together into a coherent national programme for Wales. This will include working with partners across health, social care, education, policing and the third sector to improve prevention and early intervention, to strengthen early identification of harm through improved data and intelligence use and, most importantly, ensure that the concerns of children and young people are, without exception, treated with the utmost and unconditional seriousness.

On mental health, I aim to oversee a fundamental change in how our services are delivered, moving towards open-access, same-day mental health support, a fundamental shift from a traditional model to one focused on recovery and prevention. NHS Wales Performance and Improvement has been commissioned to develop a new mental health clinical plan, covering same-day access, modernisation of community mental health services and action to prevent escalation to in-patient care. I will review progress in September.

On the vital area of suicide prevention, I have met Professor Ann John, national adviser for suicide prevention and self-harm, and I'll provide a written statement imminently setting out this Government’s early priorities in this area, with a particular focus on male suicide.

As lead in Government for dementia, I am committed to developing a new dementia strategy that focuses on brain health, improving diagnosis and strengthening support. I'm determined to better help people with learning disabilities by strengthening community support, reducing hospital admissions and shortening hospital stays. Our drive to establish consistent standards of care across health, social care and housing will deliver, in line with our manifesto, on commitments arising from the Stolen Lives campaign and the 'From Hospitals to Homes' report.

I'm committed to ensuring neurodivergent people can access timely, high-quality support wherever they live, by reducing children’s assessment waiting times and eliminating the longest waits. We will also improve adult autism and ADHD services, invest in workforce development and innovation, and ensure that services are shaped alongside neurodivergent people and their families.

Turning last, but by no means least, to women’s health, I am proud to be Wales’s first women’s health Minister. It is long overdue. For too long, women’s health has been treated as an afterthought, as optional—a 'should', not a 'must'. I want that to change. I will expect that it must change. My first focus will be on tackling women’s pain in healthcare. I'll be hosting a ministerial summit on 16 July that will focus on women’s voices and tackling this normalisation of pain in health, hearing directly from women with lived experience, alongside clinicians.

How many women have been told, 'This might hurt', have been afraid to speak up and say that they are in pain? Women’s voices should be heard. Their pain should not simply be endured. I am determined to change this. We will be refreshing elements of the NHS Wales women’s health plan, with action this year focused on improving endometriosis and abortion services. I will want to hear from women directly, we'll be commissioning work to gather women’s feedback, and we're also carefully considering the women’s health hub model to improve consistency.

I'm determined to see improvement in maternity and neonatal care through implementing the recommendations of 'The path to safer beginnings'. We'll strengthen data collection of stillbirths and neonatal deaths and ensure bereavement and mental health support are there for families who experience the devastating loss of a baby. Work has begun on a national cancer plan, which will address cancers that disproportionately affect women. A written statement will set out more detail on 15 July.

Llywydd, I want women to take up space, be it through women’s health hubs, through theatre space, or for more women to take up the space they need in their GP appointments. How many women listening today have been belittled or ignored? We’ve all had fantastic doctors who get it, and we’ve all had doctors who don’t. No woman should be afraid or embarrassed to ask about pain or things that don’t feel right. We have to see improvements in training, but I also want to empower women to take up that space, to give voice to their worries, to feel certain they’ll be believed and listened to. Because women should be believed about their bodies. As Minister for women’s health, I am determined to see change. Women must see change.

These are just some of my priorities for this role. I will work with Members across this Chamber, with committees, to make things better, because that is what my work will be about: making things better for people’s lives. I want to pinpoint where the gaps exist in our policies. I mentioned earlier how I want to shine a light. Leonard Cohen reminded us that

'There is a crack, a crack in everything / That's how the light gets in'.

I want to shine that light and to remember always the debt we owe to all those other souls alive at this same moment, in this same place. People in crisis, people who’ve been as good as forgotten. People struggling to get appointments, patients whose needs have not been met. Families waiting too long for diagnoses. Women not being believed. I want to bring hope, to bring change, and, most of all, to be a voice for those who have not been heard. I promise I am listening.

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for her statement today and congratulate her on her appointment? There's a lot in this statement, and Members across this Chamber, I'm sure, will welcome the recognition of unpaid carers, the commitment to improving mental health support and the focus on men's suicide, the focus on women's health also, and the acknowledgement that social care has been undervalued for too long, as it is key if we are to solve some of the problems in our NHS. But warm words also need to be matched by delivery, deadlines and accountability.

On social care, the Deputy Minister spoke about a national care service, something I have long opposed as an unnecessary additional level of bureaucracy and a drain on vital public money. A national care academy, fair pay and conditions, better support for unpaid carers—there's something we all want—and those significant commitments that you've made also need to be matched by funding. I would like to know from you today what is the practical timetable for all this work to be developed. When will the national care academy be coming online, and how will that link with the workforce planning, training, and problems we have with recruitment and retention in this sector? Critically, how will the Welsh Government ensure that the national care service does not become another layer of bureaucracy when what the sector actually needs is people, better support, and proper pay?

On unpaid carers, the Deputy Minister rightly said that carers want policies, not praise. I agree. Wales needs a clear updated carers strategy as not just a document, but a delivery plan with measurable outcomes. The consultation on the draft national strategy for unpaid carers closed in April, so can the Deputy Minister tell us when the final strategy will be published? Will it include clear commitments on respite, short breaks, financial pressures—especially young carers as well—and the right for carers to be identified and supported early? And will she commit to reporting regularly back to the Senedd on the progress on delivery?

The Deputy Minister also made reference in her statement to neurodivergent people and ensuring that people are receiving the support they need. I agree. I've heard plenty of times through committee work in this place that we're not supporting those people. One thing the Government could do is implement a Bill that was proudly championed previously by another colleague in this Chamber, Paul Davies—an autism Bill here in Wales to help people living with that condition. Will the Government commit to bringing forward an autism Bill in this term of the Senedd?

On mental health, I welcome the ambition around open-access, same-day support. But again, the question is around delivery. What does same-day support mean in practice? Who are these people going to see? Because there are varying levels of support that someone wants; someone who is at a very critical stage will need a much higher level of intervention than someone who maybe just needs a bit of pastoral support and a bit of a chat on the telephone. So, I'd just be interested to know how you're going to manage that in practice. And how will this work also in rural areas and areas across Wales that are a long way away from other services? How is this going to work? I'm not quite sure. And do you also believe that there is the workforce there to deliver this as well? Because I've done a lot of work in the mental health space, and I don't think the workforce is currently there to meet this ambition.

The Deputy Minister also mentioned suicide prevention, with a particular focus on male suicide. I strongly welcome that, because we all know that one of the biggest groups that does suffer from suicide is young white men, and young men in general. They are the people who suffer the most and they do need to be supported. But I would urge this Government to go further. What Wales needs is a dedicated men's health plan. England now has a published male health strategy, Ireland has a national men's health action plan, and I do not think that Wales can be behind the curve.

This cannot also be only limited to suicide prevention. That is important, but a proper men's health plan should cover things like men's health, suicide, cancer, cardiovascular disease, lung problems, workplace health, rural isolation, fathers who are struggling with newborns. A lot of men don't come forward because they struggle with these issues and we don't debate them openly in this Chamber. I think something I'd like to see from this Government is a proper men's health strategy. I'd love to know today if you can commit to developing that men's health strategy for Wales. And if you won't commit today, will you at least commit to considering it and setting out a timetable of how this Government may address men's health in a structured and measurable way?

On women's health, I do welcome the Deputy Minister's focus on pain, endometriosis, maternity care and the need for women to be listened to. Of course, everybody across our society needs to be listened to; that is important. But I would ask how the refreshed women's health plan will be delivered consistently across Wales. Will the women's health hubs be piloted or rolled out nationally, or are they just being considered, and what funding will sit behind this piece of work? Because if we are going to have them delivered, the funding does need to follow. And how will you also ensure that women in rural Wales do not suffer as a result of this and make sure they've got access to major centres and women's hubs?

And finally, Llywydd, I think everyone will welcome the tone of the statement—I would expect no less from the Deputy Minister—but the test for you will not be whether the aspirations are good; the test will be whether people across Wales feel the difference. Will carers get their respite? Will care workers stay in the profession for longer? Will people with mental ill health in crisis get the support they need? And will men and boys in Wales finally see a dedicated plan to address their health needs, too?

And I will close here, Llywydd. I do hope that the Deputy Minister will work constructively with all Members across this Chamber, and I look forward to seeing those clear timetables and funding commitments from the Government to deliver the ambition that you've set out today. Diolch.

James, there are lots of really welcome questions there. I really thank you for those. Firstly, there are lots of areas of agreement here. You said that social care has been undervalued but that you personally do not see the need for a national care service. Some of the other things I'm going to be talking about in response to what you talked about the social care element of this brief—. We want to make sure that what we have for people is greater than the sum of those parts, that actually there is parity of esteem for people in the workforce. And without being the same status—. It's bizarre, isn't it, that there's never been a founding moment for the care service in the way that we've had with the NHS. We celebrated the NHS's birthday a few days ago; when I was talking about the same space in our psyche, we should be celebrating this work. Most people will come into contact with the NHS and with other areas of public service throughout the course of our lives. Most people only come into contact with the care service when something has either gone wrong with them or someone else they love. So, the invisibility of it for lots of people—we need to increase that status, but again, there are lots of individual elements where I think that we do agree, but that enveloping principle and status and platform for it is why I want it to be greater than the sum of the parts.

I'm glad that you agree about the national care academy. In terms of the timescales, a lot of this will take the course of the Senedd. There are some things in terms of the academy that I would want to bring forward far earlier, linked in with the workforce review that we will be conducting very shortly as well.

I'm really glad that you mentioned unpaid carers. As you know, this is something that I feel really strongly about as well, and I know this is something really close to your heart. Yes, we will certainly be making the commitments that you have set out, because unpaid carers save our society—and Government, but our society more generally—billions of pounds. But too often, the work they do falls through the gaps in graphs. I'm put in mind of the words of Bobby Kennedy, when he was talking about the gross domestic product and how it measures everything in society, except for all of those things that make life worth living. And this is one of those examples where we need to give greater esteem to the work that they do so that it doesn't go as unnoticed, because we owe unpaid carers more than words or recognition, we owe them a better life. And lots of the things that you set out are just some of those things. I'm aware that, prior to the election, the Health and Social Care Committee's report on unpaid carers made lots of really valuable recommendations, and I'll be responding formally in September. And the national strategy for unpaid care that you asked about, that will be published in the autumn and it will be covering a lot of the areas that you raised. So, thank you for that.

On neurodivergence and the idea of an autism Bill, I'm happy to have further conversations about that. I know that there was an awful lot of really valuable work that Paul and others put in to that.

On same-day access, well, the focus would be on the person's biggest concern at that moment and prioritising strength and recovery. Evidently, this would have to work in a holistic way. In terms of how that's going to be working, I think there are 21 demonstrator sites already testing over Wales. In the longer term, we would expect to see a shift, of course, in funding from specialist in-patient care to community support. And that brings me to the point that you made about making sure that people from rural areas won't be disadvantaged. We want to focus more on community prevention, where that's the most appropriate, of course. There will still be a need for in-patient care as well.

On the women's health plan, you talked about the hub model. I think we need to look at this. There are some examples where it's going well, other examples where we just have websites. That's not always possibly working well, but we are going to be evaluating that. In terms of how a lot of this will be funded, health boards should be funding a lot of this already, of course, because women's health should not be an optional extra. Women are half of the population. This is something that should be in core funding anyway, but we obviously want to make sure that this is done in a way that's going to be sustainable.

And on your point about a men's health strategy—now, I welcome you raising this issue. I acknowledge the passion that you and other Members, of course, have brought to this idea. I am prepared to engage with you and other Members on this as a concept, because, of course, you're right that certain health issues are either only apparent in men, or have a disproportionate effect on men. And there's a lot of work, including what I've said about male suicide. The upcoming cancer plan will look at improving rates of diagnosis in areas like prostate cancer. Whether we need to bring that together in one men's health plan, I am open to the idea, and let's have further conversations. But, diolch. Forgive me, if I've missed out any questions, please let me know.

Thank you to the Minister for the statement today. I'd like to start with a topic that I know many other Members are passionate about, and that's women's health. For far too long, women's voices and experiences in the healthcare system have not been given their due weight. And in the last Senedd, the Welsh Labour Government's women's health plan was a significant step and ensured that there is a focus on women's health in our NHS.

I'm personally proud of what we achieved in Government to put more focus on women's health, from free period products, to menopause support, to creating women's health hubs in every health board. But there is, of course, much more to do, and Plaid Cymru must keep up the momentum.

It was disappointing to see that there is no dedicated action for women's health in Plaid Cymru's pledges for their first 100 days in Government. We will hold the Government to account to ensure that women across Wales get the care that they deserve, and that the goals of the women's health plan are funded and delivered in full.

I'd specifically like to ask about endometriosis, which, as the Minister will know, affects one in 10 women in Wales and can be truly debilitating. I know from constituents that too many women find themselves being dismissed, with symptoms not taken seriously. And the impact on women's well-being and careers can be absolutely devastating.

In Government, we had committed to developing accredited regional centres for endometriosis care across Wales, to improve access to specialist support. This was alongside a network of community and primary care endometriosis clinics to be based in the new women's health hubs. I note that the Minister said she's carefully considering the women's health model. I'm just disappointed that you can't commit today to continuing that important work, and I'm really keen that we have clarity as soon as possible.

Advances are being made in diagnosis, and we must make sure we're ready to adapt to these new developments. Rapid endometriosis tests have just been given the go-ahead by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, which will help to significantly reduce the time it takes for women to be told whether they have the condition. One test, I believe, provides that result in 45 minutes. Currently, getting a diagnosis can take years. So, when does the Minister expect women in Wales to be able to access those new tests?

On social care, I was pleased to see the Government's long-term commitment to developing a national care service, and this is an ambition that we share. One of the key opportunities for strengthening our social care system is by improving integration with local authorities. So, what concrete steps will the Minister take to bring these systems closer together and ensure that people receive more seamless care at the time they need it most?

And I'm proud of how the Welsh Labour Government fought to properly reward our social care workforce, including through legally enforced fair pay agreements. And, of course, our social care system across Wales would not work without the huge contribution of unpaid carers—people who look after their loved ones, often in the most difficult of circumstances, to help them live as well as possible.

Earlier this year, the Welsh Labour Government consulted on a new strategy for unpaid carers, and we need to see progress on this. Minister, you said today that the Government is investing in the short breaks scheme, but we do need some more detail on that. So, will you commit to providing the funding needed to provide 16,000 short breaks for unpaid carers each year for the rest of this Senedd term?

And lastly, I'm just going to turn to mental health. Again, this is an area where I was disappointed not to see a dedicated action from this Plaid Cymru Government for its first 100 days. You've referred today to a fundamental shift in service delivery, but it is unclear what that actually means for people in need of support. So, can the Minister set out today for us what changes will people see in mental health services in Wales this Senedd term, and how many more people will be set to benefit?

Diolch, Jayne, for those questions. So, to take them in turn—in terms of women's health, I would pay tribute to the work that Sarah Murphy did, and Eluned Morgan, in the last Senedd. We are really keen to build on the foundations of this, but to make sure that we are giving it the prominence of having a named Minister, so that I can be tracking that progress. So, I would pay tribute. I look forward to welcoming Sarah back when she's back from maternity. I promise that I will keep up the momentum. This is something that, I hope it's coming across, I care very passionately about.

In terms of 100-day commitments, well, without it even having to be in the actual plan, I'm hosting a summit on 16 July, which will be well within 100 days, looking at that normalisation of pain in women's healthcare. It was the first thing that I talked about with officials, and I promise that that's something that is going to be key to the work that we are doing.

In terms of endometriosis, yes, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to convene this summit, and it's going to be a summit that is going to be hearing directly from women who have gone through too much pain before their symptoms are recognised, as well as clinicians. I know that probably everyone in this Chamber will know someone or might themselves have gone through something like this. It should not be normal for women to have to go for so many appointments before they get the symptom diagnosis that they deserve. So, I want to look at this in terms of, yes, how it is working in hubs, how it's working in primary care, all the way through to tertiary services as well. It's going to be a focus of the women's health plan.

In terms of the hubs, some of them are working well. I think that because of the tight timescales that were surrounding their development, maybe they hadn't been developed as holistically as might have been the case. We want to make sure we're learning from the best examples and improving where we need to, but it is something I'm really keen to keep.

In terms of the new guidance on endometriosis, I welcome that new guidance, and we'll be considering the implementation of those tests as part of the priority work that we're undertaking with that. I know that it's going to be part of the primary care pathway development following final recommendations from NICE; I think they're due in October.

On social care, I agree entirely with what you say about seamless care. One of the things that we are going to be creating in the first 100 days, or we're going to be opening the recruitment for in the first 100 days, is the director of out-of-hospital care. That role is being scoped at the moment. I am hoping that that role will have quite a fundamental role in overseeing this. You mentioned fair pay agreements—those are to be welcomed. We've said that we will be following the same timescales as they will have in England on this, but, obviously, that's something being brought forward by the UK Government, and we want to make sure that, in the meantime, as we wait for all of that to happen, as many carers as possible are receiving the real living wage as a minimum. I think latest figures suggest that 84 per cent of the workforce are getting that and that is still not enough. So, I give you my commitment that we'll do everything we can with that. As I say, the strategy for unpaid carers will be reporting in the autumn. We have committed to continuing to support the short breaks scheme and making sure that we are providing wraparound support for unpaid carers. As I say, policies, not praise.

And, then, finally, you asked about mental health and what these changes are going to mean for patients and for families. It would mean that people can access a variety of services without having to have a referral and that support would be based on need, not having to wait a long time to get that referral and to be seen. The focus would be on the person's biggest concern at that moment. I'm really excited, actually, about how that could utterly transform—. We would be the first country in the world to do this as well. I'll be reporting more detail on this very early in the autumn, but I'm really excited about how that could change things for the better for many, many people's lives. Diolch.

Thank you, Deputy Minister, for setting out your priorities for this Senedd term. I'm glad that you have the passion in setting out your priorities and I certainly hope that passion continues in the years to come.

Deputy Minister, I want to begin with your point of view on women's health. I know my colleague Jayne Bryant just touched upon it, but I note you placed a lot of emphasis on women's voices in your statement and you've indicated you'll be refreshing parts of the women's health plan. Last week, NICE published new draft guidelines on polyendocrine metabolic ovarian syndrome, formerly known as polycystic ovary syndrome, recommending faster diagnosis and an annual review of women and girls aged 10 and over to include symptoms and signs of PMOS and any concerns they have about period regularity, fertility, weight, mood and sleep apnoea, alongside medicine use and long-term risks of developing related health conditions such as diabetes and cardiovascular disease. I know that the guidelines are currently out to consultation, but, given that women and girls are often waiting years for diagnosis and treatment, what consideration has the Deputy Minister given to annual reviews of the condition, alongside the training of doctors and health professionals across Wales to spot the signs of PMOS?

This takes me to my second point: education. All too often, women and girls cope with endometriosis and PMOS because they believe that heavy and painful periods are a normal part of their menstrual journey. In February, I asked the previous education Minister about empowering women and girls through awareness and ensuring universal menstrual health education within the curriculum. Because, while some schools provide great advice, sadly, others do not. Deputy Minister, I'd like to know what efforts will you be making to ensure that quality menstrual health education is delivered across Wales, and will you be willing to meet with organisations such as the Menstrual Health Project to support this delivery?

On women's health hubs, I have raised consistent concerns about the delivery of advice and support for menopause alongside menstrual health. I note that Cardiff and Vale University Health Board have launched a menopause hub in Ely, but I'd like to know, Deputy Minister, how will you help roll out hubs like these across Wales, so all women will be able to have access to support?

The Senedd's Health and Social Care Committee in the last term found that women in Wales were being let down by the previous Government's inaction on gynaecological cancer. The previous Labour Government, sadly, failed to deliver on many of the committee's recommendations. And I appreciate a written statement is coming soon on the cancer plan, but can you please touch upon some of the work this Government will be doing to improve gynaecological cancer care here in Wales?

I'm pleased, Presiding Officer, that the Deputy Minister has set out her aims for social care. All too often—and I know we've heard this from many Members—social care, despite its significance within the health system, has been relegated to being the cinderella service. Like the Deputy Minister, I'm keen to ensure that social care is indeed given more prominence. However, I am genuinely concerned that there's still a lack of joined-up thinking within the health and care system, specifically with regard to delayed discharges and sharing of patient records.

In April, Community Housing Cymru estimated that discharge delays due to housing issues had risen from an average of 63 days in 2023 to 76 days in 2025, and that, last December, more than 1,400 people were in hospital beds despite being well enough to leave. Last month, nearly 150 delays were counted as a result of waiting for social care assessments, with a total of 4,165 days delayed. A further 300 days were due to care home placement arrangements and nearly 21,000 days delayed. The Salvation Army estimates that, last year, patients were discharged on 318 occasions with no fixed abode from Welsh hospitals.

There are also deep concerns about the lack of information sharing between hospitals and social care, given that they run on a multitude of different IT systems, leading to patients who are vulnerable and have complex conditions being discharged without the relevant information to help care for them after they have left hospital. As the local government committee highlighted last year, the Welsh care workforce is chronically understaffed. We're all well aware of this, Deputy Minister. This is, unfortunately, unsustainable going forward, and uncaring. I note your manifesto has mentioned more joined-up planning between health and social care, so how are you delivering this in relation to delayed discharges and housing? How will the new connected care programme for integrated health and care records be monitored by your Government? And what efforts are you making to address the significant shortages in the social care workforce?

I also had the pleasure of meeting with Carers Trust and Carers Wales recently, and whilst I'm pleased to hear that more funding will be given to the carers support fund and short-break schemes, there are still lingering concerns about short-term funding and that unpaid carers are still waiting for change, to find out what your Government has in store for them. So, Deputy Minister, we've got two committee inquiries about unpaid carers in 2019 and 2026, which gave the same recommendations. So, how are you delivering those changes at pace to reform support for unpaid carers here in Wales?

Finally, Presiding Officer, I thank the Deputy Minister for updating the Chamber on her aims for mental health. Whilst, in a perfect world, we'd see parity of treatment for mental and physical health, we are still not at a stage where mental health is treated with the same urgency. According to the Mental Health Foundation, around 720,000 adults in Wales had poor mental health, with Wales reporting higher levels of poor mental health than the rest of the UK in 13 out of the last 15 years. While I note that much of the emphasis has been given to prevention, the Mental Health Foundation has further expressed concern about the lack of information on how much is spent on prevention by the Welsh Government, where investment is directed, and what impact it has in the long term. The foundation says, and I quote, 'To ensure future policy efforts are effective, Wales must improve the collection and publication of data on prevention at both health board and national level'. Unquote. So, I therefore ask, Deputy Minister, whether you will be open and transparent on both mental health data and your policies on prevention going forward. Thank you so much.

Diolch, Natasha, for those questions. In terms of the women's health strategy and supporting or strengthening women's voices, that is precisely why I want, when we are reviewing the women's health plan—we're commissioning survey work—to make sure that we're hearing directly from women. I want that not to be a one-off; I want to make sure that we keep, and that I keep, hearing from women. And please, everyone, take this as a plea: I want to hear when things are not going well. I want to make things better. So, thank you very much for raising that.

On PMOS specifically, you asked—. I know that the guidance—draft guidance—has been published by NICE; the final recommendations won't be available until December. So, in the meantime, I'd urge as many people as possible to contribute to that to make sure it's evidence-based.

I like your idea about education because, yes, exactly, empowering women, what I was talking about: women taking up space. However we can do that—working in education, through public awareness campaigns; there are so many different components. And again, I'm willing and eager to work with Members across the Chamber to make sure that we get this message out to women and that we empower them to use their voice and to know that they will be heard. The two things have to work together, and I will certainly be willing to meet with organisations to discuss how we can do that better.

I won't repeat what I've said—because I know I'm probably not in the Llywydd's good books at the moment in terms of timing—I won't repeat what I've said on the hubs, but we are evaluating how well they're working. That detail on the gynaecological cancers, that will be available in the written statement later in July—I think it's 15 July.

I agree social care should not be a cinderella service. In terms of how we can improve integration and also making sure that we are improving, making sure we're not having so many people waiting in hospital who are well enough to be discharged, the director of out-of-hospital care will be, I hope, overseeing that work, just looking at how frailty is treated at the beginning of when someone goes into hospital and issues like that. On the workforce, establishing the academy will be fundamental to this so that we're not just looking at getting towards parity of pay, we're also looking at how we can get towards parity of conditions—again, parity of esteem. Because I do fundamentally think we need to get to a place where we have a national care service to have that full parity, and I will be responding to that committee report on unpaid carers in September.

On mental health, you, finally, asked about improving data and improving prevention—absolutely.

Diolch. I welcome the statement today and the importance of women's health hubs. They're an essential part of the 10-year women's health plan. Despite this, a lot of women are telling us that the experience on the ground is not matching the ambition that we see on paper. In some areas, what presents as a women's health hub appears to be a website, a signposting service, or simply an existing clinic that's been rebranded. Given this inconsistency, I would be grateful if the Deputy Minister could provide an update on efforts to standardise the hubs. With almost 50,000 women still waiting for gynaecological treatment across Wales, how will the Deputy Minister ensure that these hubs deliver genuine additional capacity, extra staff, resources and a specialist service rather than rebadging the service that's already existing?

Thanks, Safa. That's a really important question. As I've said, we will be evaluating the hubs model. I don't think that most people would, when they hear 'a women's health hub', I don't think that they would think that a website would—. I know that there are certain things we need to take into consideration when we've got rural populations, a very dispersed population, but, for the most part, I think we need to be looking to see where there can be physical places. Again, it's about taking up that space physically, but also just making sure that women are empowered in spaces to talk about exactly those symptoms so that we can improve diagnosis rates and, ultimately, save women's lives.

I echo James's words. Whilst I welcome the focus on improving social care, mental health and women's health services, many constituents have told me and continue to tell me that lengthy waiting times are having a profound impact, not only on patients themselves, but also on their families and carers. The longer people wait for assessments, treatment and support, the greater the risk their physical and mental health will deteriorate. Families are often left carrying the burden of care, and, by the time support arrives, people's needs can be more complex, requiring more intensive and costly interventions. This places additional pressure on already stretched health and social care services. As someone with a professional background in psychology, I know how important prevention and intervention is. Delays can mean the difference between managing the condition effectively and a person becoming depressed and possibly suicidal. Given these consequences, can the Deputy Minister outline how the Welsh Government will prioritise reducing waiting lists, which can be up to seven years, across social care, mental health and women's health services? And what specific measures will be taken to ensure that people receive timely assessments, treatment and support before their conditions worsen, placing further pressure on families, carers and the wider system?

Diolch, Gareth. That's a really, really important question. In terms of waiting times, we have to tackle this. We have to make this better. In terms of psychological therapies, I know in particular that we are not where we need to be, to say the least. And in terms of the expertise that you have, I would be really pleased to work with you to look at how we might be able to improve that.

In terms of how, generally, we need to make this better, this is why I want to oversee that fundamental transformation so that we move to same-day access to mental health services, so that people are not waiting all that time, because, as you say, people can only get worse while they are waiting. It can get incredibly serious. And so, yes, I promise you that this is something that we will be prioritising. I'd be very keen to have a conversation with you about it.

I'm grateful to my colleagues for already mentioning the important issue of endometriosis. We know that delays in diagnosis and treatment can span years, whilst women are left in pain, struggling to work and facing long-term health consequences. Women are being failed by the gender pain gap, where they are more likely to experience chronic pain but are statistically more likely to have their symptoms dismissed. The Deputy Minister will be aware that I have recently written to her raising concerns regarding the future of Wales's only specialist endometriosis centre. The women's health plan recognises the need for improved pathways, specialist expertise and timely access to surgery. How will this Government support women across Wales, ensuring that patients across all health boards can access the level of care that they need to get their lives back?

Diolch. Again, so vitally important as a question. In terms of the delays of diagnosis, as you say, women can sometimes wait years. They are being failed. And yes, as you say, the gender pain gap indeed. I am concerned—. I'm aware of the concern about the risk of loss of British Society for Gynaecology and Endoscopy accreditation for one of those centres. Officials are engaging with the health board urgently on this. I've made it clear that I expect these services should continue to be available. Of course, there—. There is another accredited centre in Swansea Bay University Health Board. There are surgical procedures that are carried out in Aneurin Bevan University Health Board. But, still, we need to make sure that the space, again, in theatre is allowed to be taken up by these procedures. Women wait in pain for far too long.

But this is something that we are going to be looking at from primary care—again, women being believed, women taking up space in GP appointments—right through to those if someone has deep infiltrating endometriosis, where there will be far fewer women, of course, but, my goodness me, they need that support. So, yes, I promise you that, everything we can do, I will be doing it.

I want to start with some really good news. On 18 June, we heard the most awesome news that children vaccinated aged 12 to 13 are now close to zero risk of dying from cervical cancer before the age of 30. Between 2020 and 2024, there were no cervical cancer deaths. That is in England, but that is something we need to celebrate in terms of the medical advancements. And I'd just like to hear from you, maybe in a letter, what is the situation in Wales, because it's something we need to celebrate—it really is. To hear that news is amazing.

I just want to talk about social care, going back to a point I raised this morning—this afternoon, sorry—about Powys losing 146 social care beds. We could see hospitals going in Powys, in Builth, Knighton, Ystradgynlais, Machynlleth, Llanidloes, Welshpool and Bronllys. That is not going to help our challenge with social care in a rural area. So, please can I ask you what you are doing in order to stop the closure of those rural beds in Powys. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you, Jane. Thank you for sharing that good news. It is really important to celebrate that, and I will write to you in terms of what that means for us in Wales. But, where there are things to celebrate, where things are going well, we need to do that as well. So, thank you. And I know that the situation in Powys—which is concerning, of course—I know the health board will be looking at that. But, again, just looking at how, across the nation, we can make sure that services are sustainable for the future, again, that director of out-of-hospital care is going to be essential for this. In terms of the specific situation in Powys, again, it’s something for the health board, but if there’s anything that we can do, I will write to you.

Diolch, Lywydd. Thank you, Deputy Minister, for your statement. I'm a little bit surprised and disappointed that there's nothing in there that recognises the challenges that local authorities have at the moment in delivering social services. For years, local authorities across Wales have been warning about the escalating costs of social care, with hundreds of taxpayer-funded care packages now actually costing up to £10,000 a day for single individuals. So, my question to you is: have you worked out why the system has been allowed to reach this point? And after informing me in a previous response to a written question that the cost of publicly funded care or support packages and placements is not held by the Welsh Government, is finding out why these costs keep rising one of your priorities, and if so, what do you think you're going to do about it?

Diolch. A really important question. Obviously, it's quite cyclical that we are in some ways ending where we began, where we were talking about the fundamentals of the social care system that we have, and whether we go back to privatisation, whether we go back to Thatcher. Look, we can't look just at where we've come from; we have to be focusing on where we go from here. Obviously, no-one looking and trying to design a service from scratch would want to design it as it is. There's too much variation. One of the things we're going to be doing is improving data to see which local authorities are spending how much on social care, because it's unhypothecated. We need to make sure that there is, again, as much consistency as possible, as much consistency in commissioning. I want to support local authorities in doing that. They are going to be fundamental partners for us, so we want to work towards a national service with local underpinning, because the people closest to those people who need that support are the people who know the local services, working with regional partnership boards, working with, again, local health boards. We need to be bringing services together, but, again, not just for the sake of services; it's about improving people's lives and making sure that people get that better quality of service. So, yes, that is something fundamental. It's not just important; it underpins where we need to get to, so thank you.

I want to work constructively with the UK Government within a respect agenda. Should Andy Burnham, as it looks likely, become the next Prime Minister, then I'd expect his experience of working in a devolved context in Manchester to help him understand the issues we are facing. I welcome his recognition that the current funding system is overly centralised and producing uneven outcomes across the UK. I want to work alongside him to deliver for people here in Wales. And, if I could say, the clearer we speak as a Senedd, united on that particular issue, the more likely it is that our voice as a nation is heard in Downing Street.

Our recent manifesto, ‘For Wales’, outlines a range of commitments on fiscal reform. At the heart of these is the objective of improving the fiscal arrangements that the Welsh Government operates within, and reforming the Barnett formula as well, to ensure fairer funding for Wales. I would welcome very much the support of the Chamber in trying to achieve and deliver these very important improvements. And today's motion is simple in setting out that invitation for Senedd support.

Even though we saw a few positive amendments last year, the fiscal framework has changed little since it was introduced a decade ago. It doesn't provide the level of flexibility that the Welsh Government needs to manage our range of fiscal responsibilities effectively, nor does it reflect the ambition of the people of Wales. Let me explain why.

The Wales reserve—our savings account, if you like, as a nation—has a limit of how much we can put in it, set at 1.4 per cent of our budget. This prevents us saving for future investments to support economic growth and boost productivity. The Treasury will simply claw back any money where there is not enough space in our reserve to store it. And whilst we have no limits on how much we can access from the reserve for this year, this is temporary, unlike Scotland, which has permanent unlimited access. So, next year, we will only be able to draw down less than £200 million, well under 1 per cent of our budget. These constraints and rules are holding Wales back. It might surprise some Members—and I mentioned this earlier today—to know that, as a national Government, we have less generous borrowing powers than local councils, who can undertake prudential borrowing to support infrastructure investments. If we were not impeded by these kinds of restrictions, we could have gone further last month in our supplementary budget, for example, to invest in key priorities on childcare, free school meals for secondary school pupils, even ALN. But we are constrained. And alongside fair funding and flexibility, we want greater tax powers that strengthen accountability and allow us, crucially, to mould our own future.

We also need to get to grips with the fundamentally outdated and unfair Barnett formula, which makes us dependent on decisions taken in Westminster, because it ties Wales to spending choices for England. And let me spell it out: we have to wait for the Treasury to decide to spend on a particular area in England before we can get a consequential. So, we can't instigate additional expenditure ourselves to match our needs as a nation. That's the fundamental problem of the funding settlement. And, indeed, when Andy Burnham was mayor of Greater Manchester, he co-authored a book that made the case for a new funding formula covering the whole of the United Kingdom. He argued it was time to replace the Barnett formula with a modern formula that worked for the nations and regions. Funding, he said, and I quote,

'would be allocated based on social factors and levels of need.'

And that's all we ask for. Those comments were welcomed. Less so the apparent backtracking by the would-be Prime Minister last week when his team were briefing BBC Wales that he has already ruled out reform of Barnett. But I will, as I've said, give Andy Burnham the benefit of the doubt. They may not have been written by his own pen, let's say. But, in doing so, I kindly make this point: principles should not change by someone's proximity to power. But neither should they change when a party goes from a position of being in Government to a party in opposition. Labour's 2026 Senedd manifesto says explicitly that the next chapter of devolution must be underpinned by fair funding. If the Labour benches are to remain true to that commitment, they will vote for the Government motion. This is a motion that Labour themselves could not only have voted for over the years, they could well have tabled it themselves. But now they focus not on getting a better deal from the Treasury, but on blaming Scotland, choosing rather bizarrely, if I might say, to side with Westminster politics against the interests of the people of Wales.

We need Treasury reform rooted in a clear assessment of need that reflects Welsh demographic and economic realities, not just population. Wales requires a higher level of funding per person than equivalent programmes in England just to provide the same level of service, but, plainly, there's a range of issues that play into that. We have an ageing population, higher rates of long-term illness and a more dispersed population, which means higher costs for delivering public services. We have significantly more roads to maintain than they do in England—I think it's twice as much as England in terms of the population. The rurality and the sparsity of population costs money. It needs to be reflected.

Now, all Governments across the UK share an interest in funding arrangements that are fair, consistent and trusted. No one country should be disadvantaged by the current system, and all Governments should have the same opportunity to deliver for its people. And so, it's right to explore alternatives to the existing Barnett system. We also want to continue work with the other devolved Governments and the Treasury to pursue improvements to transparency, to fairness and greater scrutiny of the existing system. There should be independent oversight of the operation of the Barnett formula. It can't be right that the Treasury makes the rules, decides if they've been broken and determines any remedial action. The Treasury's instinct will always be to resist any transfer of fiscal powers, and I'm not underestimating the challenge of negotiating for these improvements, but we must move away from viewing this and accepting this as a zero-sum game.

There's an opportunity to make improvements in the way our framework operates, adding crucial transparency to fiscal matters and removing constraints that prevent us from taking action that will benefit Welsh public services. Wales must receive its fair share of public investment, and that also includes UK Government funding for reserved functions in Wales. Analysis by the Wales Governance Centre shows relative spending per person in non-devolved areas in Wales is at 91 per cent of England's level. Wales has been denied billions of pounds that could have transformed infrastructure and economic productivity. We heard that message clearly earlier this afternoon when the Deputy Minister for Transport made his statement on rail investment. On HS2, because rail isn't devolved, when spending on HS2 in England goes up, the clearer the injustice for Wales becomes. It has to be addressed. Meanwhile, the profits from our natural resources within the Crown Estate in Wales go to Westminster. Only last month, we heard those profits have increased from £8.7 million in 2021 to £210 million in 2025-26. Fair funding and further devolution, as we see, are inseparable, and that's why we're seeking devolution over rail and the Crown Estate.

Llywydd, we have to get to the heart of the weaknesses of the current arrangements. Our national commission, the new commission, will engage with the public in a national conversation about the constitutional future of Wales and will strengthen the evidence base for further reform. That means, and has to mean, fiscal reform too. It will look further at the powers, resources and the tools that we need as a Government to govern more effectively in Wales, to create economic growth and to safeguard the future of our public services.

So, in conclusion, the more, as I say, Wales speaks with one voice in favour of what's best for our nation, the harder it will be for Westminster to ignore us—[Interruption.] Just in time.

[Inaudible.]—many of these debates have been tabled over the years, and there's been a consensus in this Chamber, because people genuinely want to see resource spent wisely in Wales and if we can get more resource. What I'm baffled at is, from the three parties in this Chamber, you have 'delete all' amendments down. Did your Government reach out to try and find a consensus where the Chamber could get behind a motion? My understanding is that there were no discussions to reach a consensual motion that could put a united front in those discussions.

If we look at the simplicity of this motion in front of us today, to make sure that we need to make sure that we as a Parliament, that we as a nation—. Frankly, it strikes me as worrying that that is something that the Member believes there needs to be work to find consensus on. This is the fundamental of what we are here as a Senedd to do. This is the fundamental of us being able to speak with one voice as a nation. So, the more Wales speaks, as I say, with that one voice in favour of what's best for our nation, the harder it will be for Westminster to ignore us. As much as the Member perhaps wants Westminster to ignore us, this Senedd has voted unanimously in favour of fairer funding for Wales before. It's my sincere hope that we can do so once more today, in the interest of the well-being and prosperity of our people. And this is bringing to the Senedd that pursuit of consensus right here in our national Parliament today.

Thank you, Llywydd. I move the amendment in the name of Lynne Neagle. Ensuring fair funding for Wales is a central concern for any Government.

Unlike Plaid Cymru, our belief on these benches is that Wales benefits from being part of a union and that we are stronger together. And that includes being financially stronger. The Welsh Government continues to receive over 20 per cent more per person than equivalent UK Government spending in the rest of the UK. That means that, for every £1 spent by the UK Government in devolved policy areas, the Welsh Government is able to spend at least £1.20 on devolved priorities like health and education. On the most basic level, this is redistributive. It brings a material benefit to public services and communities in Wales. And I would urge those members who cheerfully advocate leaving such an arrangement by exiting the United Kingdom to consider those impacts extremely carefully.

And, of course, after over a decade of Tory chaos, cuts and austerity, Wales's funding has now reached new heights under a UK Labour Government; the last spending review securing the biggest Welsh Government budget in the history of devolution, with nearly £6.5 billion in additional spending powers assigned over the next few years. This is in addition to billions more in direct UK Government spending in Wales in areas like defence, welfare, policing and other non-devolved areas. And, because of close working between two Labour Governments, the Welsh Government now has greater access to its financial reserves as a result of updates to the fiscal framework.

Now, all of this is not to say that the Barnett formula is perfect, or that it doesn't need to be changed. Successive Welsh Governments have pushed for Barnett reform, as the First Minister alluded to, and have succeeded in making some meaningful improvements along the way. However, fundamentally reforming the Barnett formula in favour of a needs-based system will require negotiation, and ultimately agreement between all four nations. No single nation can do this alone, and yet, that agreement between nations is not forthcoming. Despite numerous independent reports over numerous years calling for Barnett reform, including reports commissioned by the Welsh Government, the Scottish Government continues to stop short of calling for a needs-based system. That is, of course, because the current system benefits Scotland further. As the Institute for Fiscal Studies have put it, and I quote:

'No needs-based factor has been introduced for Scotland, likely reflecting the fact that it currently receives more funding per person than Wales despite assessments suggesting it has lower needs'.

And that is why the Welsh Labour—[Interruption.] Sorry, Rhun. Well, go on, you've had 10 minutes, but—[Laughter.]

Is the Member aware that the Treasury insists on discussions on Barnett being bilateral between the Treasury and individual nations, that there is no mechanism for the discussion—

Yes. We are giving you the opportunity to address that, and deal directly, as you might want to, with the Scottish Government. Why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you do that? That's the focus of Labour's amendment, focusing on a crucial relationship and identifying and overcoming the Scottish Government's resistance to reforming the Barnett formula should be the primary focus of engagement between the two Governments. I think I'm right in saying that Plaid Cymru refers to the SNP as a sister party. Perhaps that is somewhere that you can start, Rhun, if you're worried about constitutional arrangements.

Our amendment is practical. This work is necessary to deliver the wider reform that the Government's motion seeks, and we would welcome regular updates from the Welsh Government on what progress they are making on this matter with their Scottish counterparts. Our amendment also makes clear that the United Kingdom—

Will you take an intervention?

I need to make progress, Matthew, thank you.

Our amendment also makes clear that the UK is the most centralised and economically imbalanced country in western Europe. Addressing that on the most fundamental level means redistributing both wealth and power. And that should include substantially increasing Welsh Government's borrowing powers. It is self-evidently nonsense that local councils in Wales can borrow more than Welsh Government. There has been significant progress made by the last Welsh Government working with the new UK Labour Government on the fiscal framework, but I am hopeful that a new UK Prime Minister that recognises the importance of place and the strength of devolution will help cut through Treasury orthodoxy and build on the progress already secured to devolve further financial levers.

But decentralising the UK isn't just ensuring that nations have the powers and funding they need, it's ensuring that the regions within them have that too, and that is a duty incumbent on the Governments of every UK nation. That's why our amendment calls for an update on

'seeking and delivering a fairer settlement for the nation and regions of Wales.'

All too often we focus on the former at the expense of the latter. Plaid Cymru's Twitter account tweeted on Sunday,

'If it’s good enough for Manchester, why not Wales?'

I think that's half right. If it's good enough for Manchester though, it's good enough for Cardiff, for Swansea, for Wrexham. Devolution shouldn't stop in Cardiff Bay and neither should calls for fair funding. The last Labour Government began this work; it didn't go far enough in my view, and those of us on the Labour benches today are clear: we want to see more powers shared from this place to the regions and communities of Wales, where people know what challenges they face and know what solutions will work. By delivering an extended vision of fair funding beyond the confines of Westminster or the Senedd to include communities right across Wales, we could shape a fairer nation where more people can have more of a say on the decisions that shape their everyday lives. Thank you.

Thank you, Llywydd. This debate isn't really about fair funding for Wales; it's about Plaid's unfunded manifesto during the Senedd election. And the First Minister is taking his begging bowl to London not because Wales doesn't get enough funding, but because Plaid, in my opinion, misled voters when they said that their manifesto was fully costed. And during the Senedd election campaign, I said that a Plaid Cymru Government would try and duck its responsibility to balance the books by asking London for more money, and then they would blame the UK Government when they didn't get it.

And so begins another four years of grievance politics from Plaid Cymru, blaming London for its failures and citing independence as the solution. And Plaid's blame game doesn't stop at Westminster: the previous Welsh Government—which Plaid were happy to co-operate with at times—they are in Plaid's sights too. And if the previous Labour Government left the finances in a worse state than expected, and I can easily believe that they did, but if that's the case, give us the proof in pounds and pence. Let's see some of that transparency and opportunity for scrutiny that Plaid talk about so often.

Plaid wants a new funding formula based on need, but we can only assume that Plaid expect to get more money from London under a new formula, not less. So, will the First Minister be transparent about this, about his end goal? Does fair funding, in his view, equate to more funding? Surely he doesn't want Wales to get less cash, and there's no point changing the formula if it retains the status quo. So, can he just speak plainly and directly and admit that he just wants more funding?

Of course, any change to the funding formula would likely lead to other devolved bodies in the UK calling for the same, and that would only be fair. I recently wrote to the Government asking what discussions they've had with the Scottish Government about reforming the Barnett formula, because surely that would be the first step Plaid Cymru would make to build on the progressive alliance that they talked about last year. But the response I received confirmed that the Welsh Government hasn't spoken to the Scottish Government about this issue yet. It seems both London and Holyrood aren't keen to speak to the First Minister on funding. But they did say—probably because my question reminded them to do so—that they will be discussing it in the coming weeks.

So, surely Plaid's first step in calling for a change to the funding formula should be to align with their sister nationalist party, the SNP. Maybe we're seeing the first nat-on-nat division; maybe Scotland realises changing the formula is a huge risk. And the IFS has highlighted a huge risk, that reform of the formula could lose Wales at least £1 billion a year. Now Plaid may argue that that figure is out of date, but the point remains: Wales could end up losing out; we could end up losing out. But this is all a moot point, because there's not going to be a change to the funding formula, and the quicker Plaid realise this, the better.

Instead, they should turn their attention to the huge amount of waste within the Welsh public sector, the inflated management costs, the poor procurement, the duplication, the subsidies that really make a difference, the 255 quangos and advisory boards—most of which have little real impact on people's day-to-day lives. Standing up for Wales is not about taking a begging bowl to London, asking for more money when we already receive more than England. Standing up for Wales is not about the First Minister re-enacting that famous Oliver Twist line, 'Please, sir, can I have some more?'

Standing up for Wales is about making solid business cases for investment in Wales: investment that will bring jobs and wealth into Wales whilst benefiting the UK as well. Let's build a business case for the M4 relief road and upgrading the A55. Let's make a business case for rolling out small modular reactors across Wales. The Welsh Government can help fast-track the infrastructure needed for that, creating well-paid jobs, whilst enhancing our energy security and bringing down energy prices in the long term. Let's leverage funding from the private sector and the UK Government with a real plan to fast-track house building in Wales. The £20 million that Plaid has pledged for social homes is a drop in the ocean. Your ambition for 20,000 new social homes by 2030 should cost billions of pounds, and you don't have that money and neither do social housing associations. We need Government to help leverage the private funding that's so badly needed, and this doesn't mean the Welsh Government borrowing money itself. There are so many non-borrowing levers the Government and local councils can pull to leverage that funding.

Make no mistake, Reform is in favour of making the case for capital investment above and beyond our block grant. But we need to do some of the heavy lifting ourselves, and we need to be much more ambitious. So, it's time to end the blame, the excuses, the platitudes, the begging. Let's stand up for Wales by taking action and taking our ambition to another level. Thank you.

Diolch, Lywydd. I move the amendment tabled in the name of Paul Davies. I'd like to make one thing absolutely clear at the outset of this debate, and that is that the Welsh Conservatives believe that Wales should get its fair share of funding. We believe that the Barnett formula is beyond its shelf life; it is out of date and we need a new funding mechanism for the United Kingdom.

We've consistently argued that Wales should get consequentials as a result of HS2 investment, and we stand by that position, and we stood by that position even when there was a UK Conservative Government in Westminster. We maintained that position. And I find it, frankly, extraordinary that the Labour Party that was in Government just two months ago has now jumped and abandoned ship from making some of those calls. Now, it's for them to be able to defend their volte-face and their completely different position, but our position is consistent.

But I think the big issue here is that, of course, there is a risk in asking for a review of the funding arrangements. We know that as a result of the action taken by the previous UK Conservative Government, we have a fiscal framework that is actually much more generous than the Barnett formula by itself would ever have been. And that formula gives us, as has already been said, around £1.20 per capita for every £1 spent per capita on a service that has been devolved to Wales. And, in fact, the Institute for Fiscal Studies have estimated that in the 2024-25 financial year, that figure was around £1.25 for every pound that was spent on a service that has been devolved to Wales. Now, that is quite significantly above any estimates that I have seen quantified by any independent analysis that's looked at the needs base in Wales and what should be an appropriate level of funding. So, there's an inherent risk in asking for more money constantly.

And I appreciate the fact that it's good for Plaid's politics to show that it has lots of disagreements with the Government down the other end of the M4. That's convenient and you need to have a knockabout and you like to play that political game. But I'm more interested in the real needs of the people of Wales and making sure that we put the politics aside and come to the table, as our amendment does, with our eyes wide open, saying, 'Look, we'd love to have some consensus.' You clearly didn't seek it before the debate or else we would have had a unified motion before us that we could all agree on, right? But we don't have that, and that is why we felt it was needed for us to be able to table this amendment today.

So, we're in a situation where we all agree in this Chamber that we need to see a change in the way that Wales is funded, but we have to do that in a way that doesn't disadvantage Wales. And in not having these conversations prior to today's debate, you will not then get the unified voice to Westminster that you need in order to take this agenda forward. And as has also been said, we do know that one of the big problems is that some parts of the United Kingdom do far better under the arrangements from the Barnett formula than Wales does. Your friends in Scotland absolutely have a great deal as a result of the Barnett formula, which enhances over and above their level of need the investment that they receive in terms of the Scottish block grant.

So, I'm more than prepared to work with all parties in this Chamber to try and get the best possible deal for Wales, but let's do so in a way that brings people together and doesn't unnecessarily divide, which I'm afraid is what your party is seeking to do: to create this artificial, significant row with the UK Government in order to play your party politics. And we're just not prepared to do that. So, I urge everybody to support our amendment on the order paper today.

This debate about funding is full of grand pronouncements from Plaid Cymru. It's full of heady rhetoric and misty-eyed platitudes. Let's talk about facts and what we know to be true. Firstly, let's be clear on what fair funding means. We know that Plaid Cymru want needs-based funding for Wales. We know that from their general election manifesto and recent Welsh Government press releases. So, fair funding means needs-based funding. Secondly, we know that the Institute for Fiscal Studies said in February this year that, based on the latest assessment, Wales is £1.5 billion a year better off under the current funding system than it would be if we had needs-based funding.

Will you take an intervention? I would refer to the statement made by the IFS in March this year saying that available needs assessments are nearly 20 years old and need updating, which is exactly what we're calling for.

I'll come back to that in a bit. The question is, though—. We have to use that as a baseline, right? There's no point saying, 'Well, we don't know what the answer is, therefore, let's just ignore the data we have available to us because it isn't perfect.' The question Plaid Cymru have to answer before the Senedd can reasonably support their calls for needs-based funding is, 'Why should the Senedd vote to risk making Wales poorer?'

Of course, we need to know what Plaid Cymru will cut if we are poorer—£1.5 billion poorer, according to the most up-to-date estimate. Snatching support from disabled children, as they have proposed in their supplementary budget, won't be enough to cover it any more. Some will argue, like Rhun, that the latest assessment of Wales's relative needs, which was based on the Holtham commission report of 2010, is out of date. That may be true, Llywydd, but that takes us to the next issue of this motion. Plaid is asking us to support needs-based funding without knowing exactly what a needs-based calculation would result in for the Welsh budget.

Will we lose out on £1.5 billion, £2 billion, or will we be lucky and only lose out on £1 billion? We don't know. But on the basis of the Holtham commission, the most up-to-date and credible estimate is a loss of £1.5 billion, and that's a fact. Remember, Plaid aren't asking Members of this Senedd to support them in commissioning research into Wales's relative spending need. They are asking us to give them the go-ahead to push for needs-based funding. It's a leap of faith, Llywydd, that could have dire consequences for Welsh public services, as £1.5 billion is around 5 per cent of the final Welsh Government budget. It's £1 in every £20 spent in Wales by the Welsh Government potentially gone in an instant. It's a massive sum. It's more than the entire transport budget or the rural affairs budget. It's the kind of cash that could change lives here in Wales. It could change industries. It could change communities. And here we are being asked to gamble that away.

Llywydd, Plaid are styled as the Party of Wales, but no party with Wales's best interests at heart would willingly vote to risk cutting our public services budget by 5 per cent, and that's why we will oppose this motion this evening, because Reform is the real party for Wales.

I grew up believing in a simple principle: if you put in, you deserve a fair share out. That's not asking for special treatment or a begging bowl, as Reform seem to like to describe it. It's called chwarae teg, and it's a value that people across Wales instinctively understand. We work hard, we pay our taxes, and, whilst we're part of this union, we expect Wales to be treated fairly—and that's why this debate matters.

Because when I look at the way Wales is funded, I don't just see individual injustices, I see a pattern stretching back generations. Cymru creates wealth, but the benefits flow somewhere else. Perhaps nowhere is that clearer than our rail network. Our railways weren't built to connect Wales to itself, they were built to extract Welsh wealth—coal, steel and slate—to English industrial centres and ports. Wales helped fuel the industrial revolution, yet when those industries declined, many of our communities were left with the scars, while much of the wealth had already flowed elsewhere. Two centuries later, we're still living with that legacy. We're one of the very few countries in Europe where travelling from the north to the south of our own nation often means leaving Wales altogether. This isn't just inconvenient, it's an economic disadvantage. Because infrastructure doesn't just move people; it builds economies and shapes where businesses invest, where jobs are created and where opportunity exists.

Instead of recognising that historic imbalance and beginning to put it right, Westminster has chosen to embed that injustice and make it a feature of the system, and nowhere is this clearer than HS2. Without a single mile of track in Wales, somehow it's classified as an England and Wales project, denying Wales billions of pounds that Scotland and Northern Ireland rightly received. Money that could transform our rail network, strengthen north-south links and unlock economic growth. This isn't just about the past, it's about our future. Every time Wales misses out, catching up becomes harder and today's underinvestment becomes tomorrow's disadvantage. And, as we've heard, rail is only one example. The Barnett formula itself was never designed to reflect Cymru's needs. It largely measures population—not age, ill health, rurality or the real cost of delivering public services. Even Lord Barnett himself accepted it was never intended to last this long. Yet almost 50 years later, Wales is still expected to rely on a formula that everybody knows is no longer fit for purpose. [Interruption.] No, I won't, sorry.

Then there's the Crown Estate. I'll never forget standing on the beach in Rhyl, looking out towards the Gwynt y Môr windfarm. Behind me was one of the most deprived communities in Wales, yet in front of me was enormous wealth being generated from Welsh natural resources. I remember thinking how familiar that story felt. The wealth is created here, but yet again, the rewards go somewhere else, usually to the already wealthy—in this case, to the UK Treasury and the royal family. As the next generation of offshore wind develops around our coastline, Wales should have the same opportunity as Scotland to shape and benefit from those assets.

Treating Wales as a second-class nation, whether it's fair funding or equality on powers, has to end. These are not separate issues, they all stem from a lack of fairness. They stem from decisions about Wales being made elsewhere by people whose priorities conflict with Welsh interests. That fact has to be acknowledged and it has to change. Not because Wales is asking for favours or has a begging bowl, not because Cymru wants special treatment, but because our nation deserves respect. We deserve the well-earned opportunity to build our own prosperity and we deserve the tools to shape our future. Fair funding isn't about accounting; it's about opportunity, it's about prosperity, it's about building a Wales where the wealth we create finally stays here to benefit our communities. If you put in, you deserve a fair share out. That's not a radical idea, it's simply chwarae teg. Going forward, Cymru will settle for no less.

Can I start by saying I've consistently supported the ability of the Welsh Government to borrow prudentially, as every local authority in Wales can? There should be no borrowing limit, but the Government should have to produce a repayment plan, including cumulative repayments. It's ridiculous that the Government can use a modified version of private finance initiative—which is the old PFI scheme but without janitorial services—for capital expenditure, but not the cheaper direct borrowing method. The Finance Committee, of which I was a member, consistently asked that money could be moved into and out of reserves within normal limits. All councils have that power, so it's an anomaly that the Welsh Government does not have that power. I cannot understand why Plaid Cymru didn't put that down, because that would have had unanimous support in this Chamber from at least three parties and probably all parties.

There's a very strong economic case for a United Kingdom where not only is Wales a net beneficiary of redistribution, but also larger countries can more easily withstand economic storms and support the less affluent parts. Iceland, on the banking crisis, is an example of the problems of a small country. Wales has substantially more of its expenditure, including expenditure on people in Wales, coming from Westminster, including funding to the Senedd and Welsh Government, than is raised in Wales. We know that Wales gets 10 per cent more than England on total expenditure. We know that in devolved areas, Wales gets 20 per cent more than England for the same responsibilities.

We know the income tax take in Wales is approximately 75 per cent of England's. There are four possible methods of funding Wales. One is the Barnett formula, which evolved from the Goschen formula that was specifically designed to preserve Scotland's public spending advantage over England. The formula was never designed with Wales in mind. Applied rigorously, the formula should have led to convergence in levels of spending per head across the UK. The formula has, however, preserved a spending advantage for Wales over England.

There have been periodic adjustments to the operation of the formula since 1980, mainly through relative population changes. These adjustments have increased relative spending levels in Wales. The main advantage of the formula is its simplicity and objectivity as the basis of making spending allocations. There have been notable successes in securing formula bypasses for devolution, for example in relation to Objective 1 match funding and the funding for city deals. We also have the Barnett floor. At the 2015 spending review, the UK Conservative Government implemented a funding floor for Wales that provided a guarantee that Welsh block grant funding per head would not fall below 115 per cent of the equivalent funding per head in England.

The second option is that Wales pays its share of Westminster costs and keeps the rest of the taxes raised in Wales. This is what independence looks like. This could have a catastrophic effect on public expenditure in Wales. The only way Plaid Cymru could get anywhere near getting it to work is to not fund the state pension and other central benefits, and not fund the Welsh proportion of the national debt.

The third option is that Wales gets its population share of devolved expenditure. This is the simplest and second most catastrophic. The 115 per cent Barnett floor would be reduced to 100 per cent of English expenditure. This would lead to the removal of the Barnett floor that protects expenditure in Wales and sees Wales doing better than England.

The fourth option is to create a formula that takes into account sparsity, age profile and deprivation. Any new formula would not be without criticism. Consider the local government formula in Wales and the misunderstood arguments and misleading statements we have on it. Anyone who has followed discussions on the local government formula would not realise that the two authorities that receive the least Government support per head are Monmouthshire and the Vale of Glamorgan. The system of grant allocation is designed to be objective and to equalise for need and resources. The following principles underlie the calculation of standard spending assessments. The relative weights of services provided by local government are determined by actual expenditure patterns. Distribution within services is in general determined by objective indicators of an authority's relative need to spend. For the purpose of calculating individual standard spending assessments, allocation to local government revenue funding is broken down into 55 notional service areas. A separate method of distribution exists for each of these elements in order to distribute the total across the authorities. This formula could be compared to England and be used to calculate relative local government need between England and Wales.

Health is a major part of the Welsh Government. It's currently over 50 per cent of the Welsh Government's expenditure. On health, there is a simplistic age-based formula to calculate relative need. Then there's the more complicated and accurate formula, including relative occurrence of all conditions and diseases, with a cost weighting attached. This would create a long and detailed formula, but it is relatively easy to achieve. The data exists and the calculations can be done. The data on relative poverty, rates of long-term ill health and sparsity are known. The rest of the expenditure needs of Wales could be calculated in the same way.

Gerry Holtham chaired an independent commission on funding and finance for Wales that reported in 2010, also known as the Holtham commission. It proposed a Barnett floor and the production of a needs-based formula. Fair funding for Wales should be based on relative need. Reform to a needs-based formula would take time. Work needs to start on it now. The Welsh Government could start on it now. I support the introduction of a needs-based formula, but I think what we need to do is start working on it. The danger is, as has been pointed out by other people here, if we go to a needs-based formula, we could end up having substantially less.

I'm just going to finish on the Crown Estate. If we have all the money from the Crown Estate, it just comes off the block grant. Every other tax devolution has come off the block grant. Why would the Crown Estate be treated differently?

It's interesting to see that the Labour amendment today claims that redistribution of wealth is a major benefit of being part of the UK, given their history of supporting reforms to the funding formula. Their own manifesto stated that:

'The next chapter of devolution must be underpinned by fair funding',

yet today they refuse to stand up for fair funding. We would be forgiven for believing that their amendment is political posturing. [Interruption.] Perhaps support for fair funding was the policy of Welsh Labour at the last Senedd, Mike, and they have new ideas now. This might make sense if the current leader of Welsh Labour didn't say that a fair funding settlement remains their longer term ambition, in only October 2025. But maybe 'longer term' means only nine months to the leader of Welsh Labour.

We need to fix the funding formula and we know that a majority of the parties in the Senedd agree and have agreed for years. We know that Wales gets the worst deal out of the current model compared to Scotland and Northern Ireland—Huw said it himself earlier. 'We're all too aware of the vagaries of the existing Barnett system'—another quote from the leader of Welsh Labour—'like HS2 or the Oxford to Cambridge line'. But, of course, with another new boss in London, Labour can't rock the boat. We're once again seeing where their priorities lie, and it shows that Plaid Cymru is the only party wholly answerable to the people of Wales and not to bosses in London, or Manchester.

The obvious contradiction in their amendment is the pointing out of the supposed benefit of economic redistribution, while, in the very next line, pointing out the intense centralisation of the United Kingdom and its regional economic inequality. This was only highlighted in Huw's speech as well—the same contradiction. Which one is it? Do we have economic redistribution or do we have intense economic inequality? The Welsh Labour amendment also reads like they're trying to cause a rift between Wales and Scotland, instead of standing up for their own country with serious policies. I know the Members on these Labour benches can be better than that, and I'd urge you to vote for Plaid Cymru's motion today and join us in truly standing up for Wales.

I stand today in favour of the Reform amendment. The Government motion today calls for the Senedd to continuously lobby Westminster for better fiscal arrangements and Barnett reform. This is the same old grievance politics from Plaid Cymru that distracts this Chamber from what really matters: delivering for the people of Wales with the billions of pounds we already receive. Our amendment is practical. It heeds warnings from the Institute for Fiscal Studies regarding the risk to Welsh funding if the current settlement changes, it calls on the Welsh Government to focus on the day job and prioritise their devolved responsibilities, and it calls on the UK Government to reduce its international spending so that more British pounds are spent on the British people.

We all know that the Barnett formula adjusts the block grant based on population and spending changes in England, and we've heard already that Wales gets between 20 per cent and 25 per cent more funding per head for devolved services. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has said that rewriting the formula risks instability, endless negotiation, with no guarantee for financial gain for Wales. Instead of going to Westminster and looking for a handout, we should be making the most of what we already have. We already benefit from the 115 per cent funding floor, as well as needs-based adjustments. The real issue here is not that Wales doesn't get enough money, the issue is how that money is spent. We need to look no further than the hundreds of millions of pounds recently given to Wales to support children with additional learning needs that this Government chose not to allocate to ease the pressure on our ALN system.

We are calling on the Welsh Government to focus on its devolved areas. Our NHS is failing to provide care in a timely manner, our schools are failing to provide results for our young children and our economy is failing to grow at a reasonable pace. For too long, successive Governments in Wales have allowed this failure in their devolved competencies whilst becoming distracted, causing money and attention to be diverted away from where it is needed. We've heard in recent debates exactly how tens of millions of pounds are wasted on international spending and programmes like the nation of sanctuary. But rather than retread ground that we've already covered in this Chamber, I will simply ask: why is Welsh taxpayers' money being used to fund globalist gestures when our own schools and hospitals are struggling?

Bureaucracy, duplication and non-core priorities drain our resources. Efficiency, productivity and reform of our services must be the priority, not handouts or constitutional lobbying. By endlessly tinkering with the Barnett formula, we risk creating constitutional friction and division with the rest of the UK. That might suit at least one of the parties in this Chamber, but we believe that Wales is served best as part of a strong United Kingdom. We have to work to find more efficient ways of delivering our public services.

Colleagues, I urge you to support the Reform amendment, heed the warnings of the IFS and demand that the Welsh Government focuses on what it can control and push the UK Government to focus its priorities at home. Bringing forward motions based on grievance will not fix our waiting lists or grow our economy—only responsible spending and Reform will. Wales deserves better than perpetually asking for handouts. Wales deserves results. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch. I'm going to be asking Members here to support the motion and to reject the amendments that simply do not address the simple question, which is: does Wales secure a fair proportion of total spending in the UK? And if not, what should we do about that?

I'm not overly surprised that both Reform and the Conservative group, as committed unionist parties, with no track record of supporting fair funding, parties that put the interests of the UK before Wales, are not supporting this motion. [Interruption.] Well, you could have supported the motion. But to see a similar position from Labour is disappointing. I've only been here for a few weeks, but I've never been as disappointed as I was with the contribution from the Labour spokesperson.

I'm struck, like Kiera was, by the cognitive dissonance of Labour's position. To talk about redistribution of wealth as a benefit of being part of the United Kingdom, immediately followed by a recognition that the UK is the most centralised and imbalanced state in western Europe, is quite frankly a danger to the unwary reader, with a high chance of whiplash. If you read the amendment, you would have to deal with the jarring reverse gear that Labour throws on its ambition for Wales.

Labour's amendment implies that Scotland is central to achieving fair funding for Wales, but that argument fundamentally misunderstands the way our fiscal framework works. The Scottish Government might not want the same reforms to the Barnett formula as Wales, but we were elected to stand up for Wales, not Scotland. Our fiscal framework is unrelated to Scotland and requires no decision—[Interruption.] I will take an intervention as long as the Llywydd doesn't tell me off later.

Thank you. Take the romantic argument out of it—let's get down to the pure facts of the matter. Any change to Barnett requires all nations of the United Kingdom to agree to it. Scotland, Northern Ireland and England all need to agree, and I've not heard anybody from Plaid Cymru yet outline how they intend to persuade other countries in the United Kingdom who might lose money to go along with this argument. And I've actually not heard a single person from Plaid yet saying what they would like to change in the formula. So, if you could please outline how you intend to change it and what you want to change, because it's all waffle at the minute.

I will. I will go on to outline how they are not related. Changes to how the Welsh budget operates does not necessitate changes to the Scottish budget. The 2014 and 2017 Wales Acts did not change Scotland's framework, nor did the Scotland Act 2016 change ours. The Welsh needs-based factor in Barnett is also separate to and unrelated to Scotland. Wales's comparability factors in Barnett and the classification of expenditure are separate to and unrelated to Scotland. Wales's borrowing limits are separate to and unrelated to Scotland. Wales's reserves drawdown rules are separate to and unrelated to Scotland.

Any argument based on the need to discuss with Scotland for any changes to Wales's funding model is wholly disingenuous, and is a way to keep us in a worse settlement. And it's the first time that I've heard of the Scooby Doo principle being invoked here. The Scooby Doo principle being: if it wasn't for those pesky Scots, we would be allowed to do what we can. The UK Government is the most centralised organisation. If they wanted to do this, they could do it.

We know that the Scottish Government also has issues. [Interruption.] I’m not going to take more interventions because I’m wary of what the Llywydd might do. We know that the Scottish Government also has issues with the current Barnett formula, and there is considerable scope for improvement. They agree that devolved Governments sit at the very tail end of UK decision-making processes, often contending with extremely late notification of substantial changes in levels of funding and changes to UK policy that affect devolved finances, and we've seen that very recently.

Labour's attempt to put off the need for a fair funding model by causing a rift between the Welsh and Scottish Governments misunderstands our shared concerns and the understanding across this island that the funding formula needs to change. We will always stand up for Wales. We deserve a fairer funding formula, and a Plaid Cymru Government will always fight for it. [Interruption.] No, I'm not, because of the Llywydd. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Lywydd. I shall try and be brief given the time.

This debate is, at its heart, one about fairness for the people of Wales, which is why I support the motion for improved fiscal arrangements and increased borrowing powers. The Wales Green Party has always believed that the relationship between the UK Treasury and successive Welsh Governments has not been fit for purpose, in that it fails to consider the needs of the people of Wales. The Barnett formula was never intended to be a permanent solution for funding devolved nations and is inherently unfair in its design.

Decisions about what funding Wales gets from the UK Treasury are made by the Treasury with no insight or consideration of Wales's unique needs. It leaves Wales with no way to adequately invest in the future. It constrains our ability to plan sustainably in line with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. It hampers Wales taking its rightful place on the international stage while delivering localised, real-life solutions to modern-day challenges, challenges that are unprecedented. Global instability, ecosystems' collapse, heightening inequality, food and supply chains barely holding on, and the acceleration of climate impacts on our doorsteps. The time for tinkering around the edges is over.

But under strain, we are a nation of solutionists. Our agility as a small nation, our culture and our progressive, localised agenda gives Wales a unique opportunity to pivot. With the power and self-determination that the people of Wales deserve, we can deliver bold solutions. Increased borrowing powers are essential to deliver our vision of a thriving nation. They would enable transport infrastructure to be built more cost-effectively. Increased borrowing powers can support strategic investment to meet the scale of the housing crisis, to deliver affordable, secure and warm homes. A greener, more stable economy supported by additional borrowing powers will unlock secure, well-paid jobs with long-term investment in climate solutions. This is essential to deliver climate adaptation, not to mention cheaper in the long term and necessary to save lives.

The needs of Wales must be taken seriously, and the Welsh Government has a timely window of opportunity to push hard for change. Without this, the balance of power will remain distorted and the people of Wales deprived of opportunity. Decisions will be made that impact funding at every democratic level without considering the needs of those who are most directly impacted. This is the moment that the UK Government must be held to account to address the legacy of underfunding and the culture of disproportionate power and control. I have consistently supported the call for devolution of powers and fairer funding and will continue to do so to ensure that the people of Wales no longer get left behind and to deliver the thriving green economy that we deserve. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd. There's a straightforward question at the heart of this debate. Should we always seek to stand up for Wales and stand up for fairness—and I'm grateful to the Green Party Members for standing with Plaid Cymru on that side of the debate—or do you believe Westminster is being generous to Wales and we should be grateful for what we get? That is clearly Reform's position. To seek fairness for Wales is to hand out a begging bowl. That is their level of respect for Wales. They are happy for Wales to languish. Pitching people against each other is what they do, creating divisions within our communities that deepen the challenges that face us as a nation, and blaming some of the most vulnerable people, rather than being willing to stand up against the deep inequalities within the UK.

Now, their lack of understanding of how a review of funding and fiscal frameworks works is proof of the fact that—. This is not a party that is focused on Wales. But their position is not one that surprises me. Labour's is a position that disappoints me greatly. It represents a remarkable, if I might say, shift in tone. And the great—[Interruption.] I'm afraid I have very little time. The great Labour leader Rhodri Morgan—[Interruption.] The great Labour leader Rhodri Morgan would shudder. In a debate on funding Wales, they take the side of UK Government, reading from the Conservatives' playbook of recent years on the benevolence of Westminster towards Wales. And I have to ask: what has happened to Welsh Labour? What has happened to the so-called party of devolution? I ask you to focus on what it is that we are here to achieve.

This is a simple motion asking for the Senedd's support. This is a simple motion asking for the Senedd's backing to improve the fiscal arrangements within which the Welsh Government acts, including increased borrowing powers and reforming the Barnett formula to deliver fairer funding for Wales. And then we are told that Welsh Government should be lobbying Scottish Government, to get, presumably, UK Government off the hook. It is not the position of Welsh Government versus Scottish Government that is important here. And I'll say it again: since 2015, the Treasury has insisted on negotiating bilaterally and has agreed separate reforms to the fiscal frameworks of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. That means there are now key differences in each country in the way the Barnett formula is applied, in the degree of control over taxation and the methodologies for calculating corresponding block grant adjustments, and the restrictions and limits on the use of reserves and for borrowing. And I'll say this: it is not Scottish Government that will block the devolution of rail or will block the devolution of the Crown Estate, which is essential to bringing about fair funding for Wales. It is not Scottish Government that is blocking Wales from being able to get the consequentials of HS2 that can transform our infrastructure and lead to the improvement in Welsh productivity that we should all strive for.

Llywydd, we need a modern funding system that is fair, that is transparent and reflects our needs. We need fair treatment on major investments. We need greater flexibilities, including capital borrowing and further tax devolution. We need the tools to build our future. We need a Government that is willing to always stand up for Wales—and we have that in this Plaid Cymru Government—and that wants to work with other parties on issues of fair funding. And we need the Senedd with a clear and consistent voice in standing up for and seeking what is right for Wales. So, that is why I ask again: support this motion—let's speak with that unified voice.